Need Input on DF committee hearings, please

by robhic 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  robhic

  Actually Robert, she will be df'd and shunned. They will have no control over her or you. They won't be able to tell her not to associate with you at that point.

  Sally, don't you think they'd make me off-limits to her as a condition of her DF and possible potential to be reinstated? I assumed the elders would make me the #1 prohibition and she would do it because they do retain some control over her by dangling reinstatement over her head should she want it.

  No family to shun her is good because the poor thing is homebound and essentially bed-bound so needs a lot of help. Her health, financial situation and life in general is fairly dismal. She needs all the help she can get and not that the local JWs have gone overboard (other than delivering magazines, etc. to her) their absence may illustrate just how little jehovah is doing for her and how massive is the help given by her worldly family and friends. I guess we shall see...

  Thanks, again, for your thoughts,

  Robert
• 

  talesin

  Robert

  Here's my story. It was many years ago, but I think, still relevant.

  I had faded for several years. About one year into my fading, I had fooled around with my best friend (a non-baptized guy who didn't go in FS, and left the religion as soon as he left home). He had gone to the elders as he was remorseful, and confessed. Was judged repentant, and 'forgiven'.

  Fast forward two years.

  I attended a 'Circuit Assembly' at my parents' request, just to make them happy. The elders approached me, and asked if we could meet. Thinking it was merely a 'shepherding call', I agreed.

  WELL. They told me that there was a lot of gossip in the congo about this person and me. They asked me for specific details of the incident. Keep in mind, I was STILL A VIRGIN, and quite sexually naive at this time. It was extremely embarrassing and humiliating. I said, well, we were necking. They asked, did he touch you on your breasts? Did he touch your private parts? Did you touch him? etc. etc. It was grueling. I was young, intimidated, and also TRUTHFUL.

  After the interrogation (now remember, I had not attended a KH for years, and neither at this point had he been there for over a year), they asked if I was going to return. I said "NO, I was disillusioned by such-and-such and so-and-so, and although I love Jehovah, I can no longer in good conscience, come back to the KH". They decided that, since I was unrepentant, I would be DFd.

  I was so angry with my friend, not because he had confessed, but because 'everyone in the congo knew about it' (which implied that he had gossiped about me). I felt betrayed. I did not talk to him for a couple of years. Finally, I relented and we got together. He hadn't told anyone but the elders about our indiscretion. They were the betrayers, they were the liars. Of the three on the JC, two were men I trusted and loved dearly! Really, truly! Although I believed him, our friendship had been irreparably damaged. So they lied, cost me a good friend, AND my whole family (except for my parents, bless their hearts) now shunned me!

  If she 'repents' and gives you up, they may not disfellowship her. But at what cost? They will want all the details, no matter how long ago these things happened, and both you and she will have to pay. If she does not 'repent', she will most definitely be DFd, and this could cause lasting problems in your relationship (guilt, blame, etc.).

  If you are reading this, dear womyn friend, I suggest you make your peace with Jehovah and don't confess to the 'elders'. They are more concerned with keeping you under their thumb than they are in true repentance. I do not regret my decision to leave the JW. Yes, it has had its hardships, but my freedom is precious to me, and imho, the rules they expect you to live by are inhumane.

  Best wishes,

  talesin
• 

  seeitallclearlynow

  I wouldn't talk to those losers for any reason and I am SO sorry your girlfriend feels any need to do so. They are NO ONE.

  I really like Blondie's way of dealing with them:

  I can remember an elder that tried to physically intimidate me. I told me that I was going to help him find out how far back his finger could be bent.

  Now that's my kind of girl!
• 

  robhic

  Talesin:

  All I can say is WOW! What a rotten thing(s) to do and by those you trusted. What a terrible, unforgivable thing. I appreciate your story and am sorry (but not surprised) that stuff like that happens. Glad you seem to be stronger for it.

  I am going to save and print some of these awful stories in case my G/F wishes to read them. I don't really see her wanting to but I want to have them handy just in case.

  She will probably say she is repentant, but I don't truly think she knows what it means. There was another incident last night so you can see just how repentant and remorseful she is -- and she hasn't even met with the elders yet! I am confused, baffled, bewildered and more than just a little pissed off. But .... I'll just have ot wait and see.

  Thanks again to you and to all who have offered information and comments.

  Robert
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  Undaunted Danny

  KANGAROO COURTS a.k.a. GESTAPO TACTICS: A few minutes, from my final judicial hearing.. A glossary of the watchtower's canon of ethics..Also known as; 'approved operating procedure' [ A.O.P.] It's all about control the; Control Freaks with a Mean Streak! Jehovahspeak=doublespeak. Carefully crafted cult rhetoric..JWessse..The articulator manipulators.. It's plain old: mealy mouthing, innuendo / deception / flim-flam / hoodwink / bamboozle / fraud / mind games / confidence game / blowing smoke and bluster / pushing your buttons.... Dumb and dumber,the "dumb-down take down". Your foe feigns ignorance..This is a Theocratic warfare tactic, where after prayer to god..The elder sitting in judgement of you,LIES and asserts he doesn't have a clue about what you are talking about...Also known as, "selective alzheimers". The notorious,"TWO WITNESS TAKEDOWN" this absurdity,is an over extension of; 2 Corn. 13:1....It is a subterfuge, ruse so the cult charlatans can selectively ignore evidence at their whim... The ambush, surprise and swarm technique , a.k.a.'ambush journalism'.{perfected by Mike Wallace of 60 minutes}..This ploy is used by wolf pack predators to quarry their prey by confusion and isolation..This strong arm tactic is like the lions loud roar to 'unhinge' and intimidate their prey. The above is also known as the ,"gang bang". or 3rd degree interrogation tactic. The use of a ,'straw man' as the,'fall guy' to divert attention from the real issue at hand, and to try to erode an otherwise valid argument.This is a variation of the age old ,drawing of a red herring, diversionary tactic.. Stonewalling,,sandbagging,,foot dragging,,pigeonholing,,suppression of crucial evidence,under the guise of the ubiquitous ,'confidentiality clause'. Threatbaiting ,which is to instill a presumptuous pretext of guilt,that you are a malefactor.Example:..."if you ever hit my mother, I will surely press charges against you.." Malicious 3rd degree style interrogation tactics with abuse recriminations. The following is an elder specialty: This goodie must flow right down from the ivory tower legal whores. [ever wonder what elders learn when they go off to their exclusive elder seminars??} It's the, deflection "JEOPARDY GAME"!. Framing false accusations in the form of a QUESTION..Example,"Brother Haszard we were "asked" if you were a faggot? When we were "asked" if you were a faggot.We said no!. This sleazy tactic is a subterfuge to isolate them from court depositions.{so you can't actually pin them down on their say-so's.This is just a variation of the age old ,'loaded question' or rhetorical question.. Oh, and let's not omit the passive/aggressive good cop bad cop routine. The legalese, AD HOMINEM attack {mud slinging] see my home page. www.DannyHaszard.com Godlessness in the last days @ 2 timothy 3:1-9,described by St. Paul... "But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days, people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive,.....ungrateful, unholy, without love, unyielding, unforgiving, slanderous, without self control, brutal, not lovers of good, treacherous, rash, conceited,....'having a form of godliness but denying it's power'....Men who worm their way into your homes....swayed by all kinds of evil desires....men of depraved minds who reject the truth... Golly,my gosh!..It sounds like, 'show time' at one of my elders meetings! The flunky elders from the Rockland Massachusetts Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses Summer street Rockland Massachusetts USA. 02370
• 

  Undaunted Danny

  Most offensive of all JW sleaze is the notorious,"Two Witness Take down".Simply put,if a JW perpetrator stabs me in the back and the entire congregation sees it happen. ....

  .....Unless "Two Witnesses" are willing to come foreward and testify, they pretend it never happened.No matter how wicked the offense may be.

  This absurdity is an overextension of 2 Corn.13:1 and is selectively enforced at the whim of the elders who play favorites. How JW cult leaders hook into your guilt and shame: They exploit the Scripture at Prov. 28:13: "He that is covering over his transgression will not succeed, but he that is confessing it will be shown mercy". They dupe you into 'spilling your guts' about intimate details of your private life so they can use it against you if you try to leave. This is standard operating procedure for all high control cults. This sleaze has a name it's called the:"Cult of confession".

  The Cult of Confession

  Serious sins (as defined by the organization) are to be confessed immediately. The members are to be reported if found walking contrary to the rules.

  There is often a tendency to derive pleasure from self-degradation through confession. This occurs when all must confess their sins before each other regularly, creating an intense kind of "oneness" within the group. It also allows leaders from within to exercise authority over the weaker ones, using their "sins" as a whip to lead them on.
• 

  talesin

  Robhic

  Thanks. I am quite over it. I just thought my story may help your g/f with her decision. I think it really illustrates the tactics they will use to get their way.

  It seems to me that she may be confused. Perhaps fear of Harmageddon and the promised health of the 'New System' is the lure? For many who are sick, the illusion of perfect health is what keeps them hanging on. It's a nice fantasy. Good luck with it! Perhaps she will begin to see the real 'truth', that today is all we can really be sure of. Let us know how it goes.

  tal
• 

  sf

  dehumanizing, degrading, sleazy and downright awful stuff that goes on in those meetings between the elders (I've often seen described as horny, sleazy old men) and a vulnerable, emotional and violated woman/girl maybe she would see how this process is such a draconian and one-sided affair.

  Yep, that is about what it was like. It is a very graphic process, in that they want tons of details. Kinda like sitting on a WITNESS stand being grilled by a relentless prosecutor.

  My hearing was conducted by the elder who, two years after he dfed me, married my mom.

  He also told me at this hearing: "You do understand now that jehovah won't hear you pray any longer. Only satan can hear you now; so don't even bother trying."

  Good luck!!

  sKally
• 

  HappyDad

  Hi RobHic,

  I was part of a few JC's in the late 1980's and was appalled at the questions that the then PO and a member of our 3 man "execution" committee was asking. At that time, the Society said to ask explicit questions, not just generalities. This Bro asked questions of a "sister" who evidently came forward to confess, that embarrised me and the other Bro. I think he got his rocks off asking and getting the answers The questions went beyond what was necessary........like "did you think he had a big penus?" Did he ejaculate in your hand or in your mouth? And this same Bro the PO was DF'd in 1966 for F..k..g my cousin's wife and destroying a family. But as the years passed........we {including myself} bought into the whoe line of BS that he was a pillar in the cong. {I can only hope that the Almighty has forgiven me for being a sucker} This same guy tried to destroy me.....but that was when I resigned. As far as I have heard.......he is still looked up to.........He takes the lead in FS all the time .

  Hey ......you know what? This board is good for me. It not only relieves tension...........it makes me remember ALL of my rage and lets me realize how WONDERFUL I have it today.

  Love,

  Bill
• 

  gumby

  Anybody who has participated in a JC hearing is welcome to add.

  I'll share one. I'll shorten it up some and be brief.

  A young married sister confessed to sexual misconduct with another single brother in my congregation. She had a similar incident in another congregation prior to this. Following "flock book orders" we had to find out EXACTLY what she did in order to determine if she and he were guilt of "pornia" or "loose conduct".

  Pornia involved touching the genitals, touching breasts was considered loose conduct.

  During the Judicial Meeting, we had to ask her details such as ...where did he touch you? Where did you touch him? How long did the touching go on? Who initiated it? What led up to this? Explain.

  All these questions were being asked to a sobing 19-20 year old girl, who had voluntarily "turned herself in" to the elders. Her husband was sitting in on the meeting with us.

  We couldn't figure out why she couldn't get words out of her mouth when we asked .."why do you think you have this problem". After a few attempts, her husband said "I need to tell you guys something". He had his wife leave the library while he explained, now the wife sobbing louder.

  He told us that her dad.....NOT A WITNESS, had molested her almost up to the time she married at 18. He said she told him that when a man comes onto her and makes sexual advances.....she never told them to stop. She didn't know why.

  This gives you an idea of the shame ones go through. Had we known about her abuse prior to this meeting.....would we have handled it different? Probably not. Do you know why? Because Elders follow the societys rules on following the guidlines in the Flock Books regardless of the situation. The society doesn't have a special guidline book for special scenarios which is why some of these meetings are conducted like a nazi interogation meeting.

  No group of men, has any damn buisness in the personal lifes of people to that extent.....ever!

  It must be noted that all elders worldwide conduct these meeting in this manner with these rules because the Organisation they believe to be true, demands it be done that way. Many Elders see no wrong in this. Only a few will step out of that boundry, and stick their necks out, and do it their way. They usually don't last too long.

  Gumby