Oops, is that WMD we just Found in Iraq????????

by Leolaia 72 Replies latest social current

• 

  Xander

  CNN is reporting that the shell casing is not marked in any way that would indicate the presence of nerve gas contained therein. It is likely the insurgents did not know what they had.

  Exactly - Iraq DID have weapons marked as chemical weapons - artillery, missiles, etc. All those were destroyed. All that they are finding now are odd shells that look exactly like regular artillery rounds - half corroded in most cases - scattered around the desert.

  Does anyone REALLY think Saddam was going to have every single artillery round or missile in his entire inventory tested to see if it was carrying chemical weapons? They DID destroy all the ones marked as weapons that were now forbidden and all the ones they had 'stockpiled' - as required by the UN.

  All that's left are random 'pieces of junk' weapons from wars gone past that are almost certainly unlisted in any kind of Iraqi inventory system - not for any nefarious reasons, they just didn't KNOW.

  In some countries (berlin in germany?) there are enough bombs under the ground in particular places, both old storage, and dropped unexploded american/british ones, that if they were set off, would remove a lot more than just top soil. Perhaps the allies coalition should go past desert storm one era, and slap sanctions on germany for it's bomb stockpiles.

  Similar concept. Although, it does appear Iraq actually managed to destroy or use up its "stockpiles" - all that is left are random shells here and there that are EMPTY ANYWAY.

  Sure, they contained Sarin at ONE point. They don't now - so it must have been destroyed some time in the past. 'Trace amounts of' anything in an artillery round is a good indicator that while it might have at one time been filled with it, it isn't now.

  Or, the troops who discovered it would have a suffered a LOT more than from 'minor exposure'.

  PLEASE PEOPLE, THINK!!!

  They are talking about a 155mm artillery round, here.

  Do you know how big 155mm is? That's 6" across. That's a big shell. If that was FILLED with Sarin, it could have killed a city block worth of people with little effort at all.

  And it blows up near US troops....and a couple people are treated for minor exposure? Is it not pretty obvious the shell was EMPTY?

  As were all the other shells found?

  I don't know what you warmongers WANTED from Iraq. You told them to destroy their WMDs, they did! All we are finding now are empty shells that, golly, look like they had their contents destroyed!

  Well, hell, THAT's sure a reason to invade a foreign country!
• 

  dubla

  xander-

  Does anyone REALLY think Saddam was going to have every single artillery round or missile in his entire inventory tested to see if it was carrying chemical weapons?

  why would saddam have to have them tested? are you saying they bought random shells from other countries without knowing the contents? didnt iraq fill the shells to begin with? so....they just didnt mark them all, kind of like a surprise package for later?

  Although, it does appear Iraq actually managed to destroy or use up its "stockpiles" - all that is left are random shells here and there that are EMPTY ANYWAY.
  

  Sure, they contained Sarin at ONE point. They don't now - so it must have been destroyed some time in the past. 'Trace amounts of' anything in an artillery round is a good indicator that while it might have at one time been filled with it, it isn't now.

  the first one found had 4 liters of sarin in it......hardly "trace amounts". do your homework before you rant.

  And it blows up near US troops....and a couple people are treated for minor exposure? Is it not pretty obvious the shell was EMPTY?

  it wasnt empty, it just wasnt detonated properly. the sarin was a binary mixture, meaning two inert chemicals have to mix when the shell is fired.....it just wasnt effective as a roadside bomb. again, do your homework please.

  All we are finding now are empty shells that, golly, look like they had their contents destroyed!

  nope, definitely not destroyed...the contents are there, now its just a matter of hoping no one over there knows what to do with the remaining shells......it doesnt appear they have a clue, thankfully.

  aa
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Do you know how big 155mm is? That's 6" across. That's a big shell. If that was FILLED with Sarin, it could have killed a city block worth of people with little effort at all.

  Stop confusing them with details darn it.

  why would saddam have to have them tested? are you saying they bought random shells from other countries without knowing the contents? didnt iraq fill the shells to begin with? so....they just didnt mark them all, kind of like a surprise package for later?

  Not to confuse ya with more details, but these weapons were NEVER reported as was required...did we bring up the rocket engines found in Jordan in the dump, the ones that came from Iraq right before the war...the 12 or so that were illegal for Saddam to have?
• 

  dubla

  Not to confuse ya with more details, but these weapons were NEVER reported as was required...

  exactly.

  aa
• 

  Simon

  Then why would one of the main proponents of the "being" WMD admit that they may never be found? (when he knows how costly it will be politically)

  Mr Blair said he had "to accept we haven't found them"

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3869293.stm
• 

  dubla

  simon-

  obviously neither administration has made a big deal about any of the findings....it doesnt look like they are going to jump all over one or a dozen shells and declare them the smoking gun. i was merely replying to your comment that there was only "one" shell....obviously there are over a dozen turning up now, so it stands to reason that there will be more. how many more will be found? who knows? how many are hidden? if there were 12 unaccounted for, do you think there may have been more? how many will have to be found before you have to quit brushing them off as meaningless? its all opinion i guess.....even one proves saddam didnt declare what he had (or even scarier, didnt know what he had done with them all....misplaced them with the marmalade)...obviously theres already a lot more than one.

  aa
• 

  Xander

  why would saddam have to have them tested? are you saying they bought random shells from other countries without knowing the contents? didnt iraq fill the shells to begin with? so....they just didnt mark them all, kind of like a surprise package for later?

  No, actually, they really DIDN'T mark them. Iraq has been buying chemical weapons for a very long time, and the presence of a 'modern', 'professional' military in the country is a relatively modern thing. They knew they were buying chemical weapons, but had no method of identifying them other than "that pile over there is the chemical weapons". Now, combine their poor record keeping with the fact they have had some of these as long ago as the early 70s (across how many wars?) and you have to wonder how the previous administration was able to find any at all to destroy.

  the first one found had 4 liters of sarin in it......hardly "trace amounts". do your homework before you rant

  You'll have to link an article for that one. All the ones I've read said all the discovered shells so far were empty.

  nope, definitely not destroyed...the contents are there, now its just a matter of hoping no one over there knows what to do with the remaining shells......it doesnt appear they have a clue, thankfully.

  That, and they don't seem to have any idea where they are. Which is interesting, given that these were apparently stockpiled, ordered, prepped and ready for launch 'within a few minutes'.
• 

  TD

  Does anyone know at what point prior to use CM shells are typically charged? From what I understand, methylphosphonofluoridic acid and it's close cousins attack most metals with the exception of 1020 steels, Inconel & K-monel.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  I left a WMD in the bathroom this morning.

  To answer your question...no...I don't.
• 

  dubla

  xander-

  You'll have to link an article for that one.

  well, i searched for the link, and couldnt find the actual "4 liters" number anywhere except this commentary page from the washington times...maybe i read it locally. there was a fox news article quoting defense department officials as saying there was "2 to 5 liters" in the shell....but i realize providing a link to a fox news article here is tantamount to providing a link to nationalenquirer.com, so i wont bother with that one, lol.

  http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20040521-084242-3106r.htm\

  All the ones I've read said all the discovered shells so far were empty.

  while searching, i didnt find any articles claiming that the artilery shell that exploded in may was "empty"....could you provide a link on that? this cnn article explains how the two chemicals didnt mix properly....and thus why no one was seriously injured. btw, do you know what the lethal dose of sarin is? its .5 milligrams. i would think, even according to the wording of the cnn article, that there was much more than .5 milligrams present...and if it wouldve been mixed properly, it no doubt couldve caused a whole lot of damage.

  http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/25/iraq.main/index.html

  No, actually, they really DIDN'T mark them. Iraq has been buying chemical weapons for a very long time, and the presence of a 'modern', 'professional' military in the country is a relatively modern thing. They knew they were buying chemical weapons, but had no method of identifying them other than "that pile over there is the chemical weapons".

  i think you might be confused about what the recent find was. the binary shell was an experimental type, not "bought" by iraq, but actually created by saddams regime. heres a u.n. document showing that iraq declared ALL (that means 100%) of these 30 shells (i think either 14 or 16 were binary) were accounted for/destroyed.

  http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/s99-94.htm

  heres a clip on the subject from the cnn article above(bold/italic mine):

  In 1990, Iraq admitted to the United Nations that it had built some sarin gas artillery shells -- prototypes that it insisted had all been destroyed during testing.

  When the shell was found near the Baghdad Airport, U.S. Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the artillery round was of an old style that Saddam Hussein's regime had declared it no longer possessed after the Persian Gulf War.

  now, once again, either saddam specifically lied about the shells, or he misplaced them with the marmalade....which is more plausible, really? and if he truly didnt know where he put them, why specifically declare them destroyed?

  aa