by desib77 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
My husband's cousin just called to offer me a book on the Trinity. My husband had told her that I didn't believe in the Trinity.
I'm having a really hard time being open to the Trinity. I have Jehovah and Jesus drilled in to my head as separate entities. But I just can't help but think there may be something to it. It is accepted as fact be what seems to be everyone but me.
Are there any of you that truly believe in the Trinity after having a background with the JW's?
Desi
Nope.
The trinity comes from a bunch of cults like jws simultaniously springing up at the same time. They each had a different idea of who was in subjection in the God head.If you read the NT each writer had his own opinion on who was top dog. There was no consensus. Since the formal trinity was not formed until 400 something you could believe whatever you wanted. It is not a big deal.
Some of the arguments against the Trinity by the WT are quite shallow.
Most scholars admit that the full-blown trinitarian concept did not get accepted till the fourth century. They also view Christian doctrine as being an evolution from Arianism to some sort of divine Christ. The Gospel of Mark doe not allude in any way to a trinity. John gives some very powerful indicators of some sort of equality between God and Christ. Matt. 28:19,20 is probably a later addition to the book, which originally was Arian in nature.
So, it's a mixed bag. The only logical way to understand the situation is to view the Bible critically as being a book with many different authors having different ideas formed at different locations and at different times. View the Bible from a historical-critical perspective and it will all make sense.
Bradley
The best person to answer your question is God himself. As Jesus to come into your heart and show you what He want's you to understand. Man's words are man's words. If we accept that the books were written with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and that we only need his Word to save us then that's how it should be approached. Sure, we can all show you how it makes sense both for and against the trintity but you have to choose for yourself. The term trinity is just a term. If you believe that the three are of the same personality then you have the trinity as it is without any more thought or logic.
If you want a real world example of how one thing can exist as three things at the same time before your very eyes I can give you such an exampe. That being said, if we can produce such an event is it not then possible that the creator of the universe could be more than anything that he created?
As for the bible timeline. I think it doesn't really matter when it was written. We all accept that it was God's will for it to be wriiten and it was with the help of the Holy Spirit that it was. Why else would it be a Holy book?
I enjoy a good scrummage through history to learn more of the language, hisory and clues about times gone by but ultimately I put more in the faith behind the writings than anything else that can be said about the "when where who" arguments. The difference between what I think and what others argue is that it makes sense when you read the book as it was meant to be read - with God's help.
Nick
"God" is your choice. Jesus is God for me, but i f you don't choose/accept/believe/desire Christ as "God", then that's how it already is, He's isn't.
People choose their Gods.
The Spirit of Christ is my God too, as is the One from whom He is begotten. I love them for who they are - they don't have to "give me" anything.
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Question: why do jws believe in demons and various other spirits as persons, but not a holy spirit?
i belive in god and his son jesus and the holy spirit which i belive to be a real spirit.
you are baptized in the name of the father,the son and the holy spirit
thats as far as i go.... i dont believe they are one, but three distinct personalities with a common goal
I would think that since the Bible goes to the trouble of affirming several times that "God is One," that it could just as easily affirmed specifically that "God is Three in One" -- if that was the reality.
I am an Arian. It is genetically impossible for me to believe in a Trinity.
Arian?
A definition for anyone who is interested: Arianism [a heresy]
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm
And a defintion of [the sin of] heresy
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm
Nuff sed.
LF
One thing that has helped me is understanding what "one" means. The world eschad in Hebrew means a one of unity, not one in pure singularity. Jesus said that he and the Father are 'one'. He also said that we would be one with him and the Father.
In marriage, two distinct people are united and called 'one' by God in Genesis. If you have been married for a long time (a good marriage,preferably!) the meaning of this becomes easier to grasp.
Obviously, the physical unity of two bodies operating together as one. A lock and a key, a violin and a bow, are often considered 'one'.
Also, we would count a woman just as 'one'... but if she is pregnant, she is technically 'two' in many people's view.
One of my favorite verses comes from Isaiah 59:15-16
The LORD looked and was displeased that there was no justice.I think of Christ as the arm of God, doing everything God wishes, empowered by the Spirit.
Another analogy is the sun (Father) and the rays of light (Son) and the warmth of the sun (HS). You can consider them individually, but you can see how they are all together 'one'. The Father, Son, and Spirit share many definitions and actions; the lines that define their 'edges' get very blurry to me.
The trinity is not an easy doctrine, though I believe it is correct. However, if the trinity was of utmost importance to understand perfectly and believe in for salvation, you would find the statement several times in the NT. Instead, one only finds believing/trusting in Christ repeatedly mentioned as utmost importance. Thankfully, becoming a theologian was never a condition for salvation. (Hey, just look at me! )
I imagine that book might have some arguments and explanations you've never considered, so it might be interesting for you to read.
Just remember, you can take your time and explore this issue; you can't force yourself to believe something you don't. If you someday see how it is acceptable to believe, believe it then.
bebu
That was nice Bebu
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I'm postulating that the idea of "being one" with God clashes with jwism and other Arian belief structures. Jws are told that they aren't up to the "heavenly reign" (but others are), and equality with God is drummed out of them at every turn.
It's rife.
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He thought it not robbery to be equal with God
I suppose the jw answer to that would be because he earned it.
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On the trinity - there's a place where Christ spoke about three - but does it proclude others?
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