Is WTS wrong Christianity flawed?

by XQsThaiPoes 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    I notice the most qouted parts by the WTS is the OT and the Epistles . All there rules are reinforcements of what is already there. Infact the letters to the early congregations are very watchtowerish. Preach, don't question me I saw Jesus once, stop diddling with each other, "it is the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine".

    I know there is lot of WTS bashing but really I think the proplem is the WTS is trying to preserve a dead religion that most "christians" don't believe in any more. In fact you may say the first century congration went extinct for a reason it was another silly little cult. I tried getting around some of the scriptures that the WTS cites and even using other bibles. It all boiled down to the WTS attitude is legit. The probelm is the implications. Not just for JWs but every christian on the planet.

    Why are people still preching? Why hasn't Jesus "returned"? How come we don't have proof of the spirit like in first century? If we are saved by grace why all the rules in the Epistles? How come nasty rotten people in the OT that did anything they wanted are saved, but chritians are not? If there is going to be a resurection of the wicked how come we can't be wicked now?

    I am begining to think christianity is a sham. The WTS bought into the sham, but figured how to make magazines about it. The model of salvation only makes sense if the christians that wrote the NT expected the kingdom to come after the romans destoryed jerusalem. Extend it 2000 years later it is a joke.

    Also I figured out how the WTS make its docterines apply. It is the baptism system. If you want to get baptised they ask you a bunch of questions and if you awnser wrong they don't baptise you. By giving the correct awnser you convice your self they are right or cede just so you can "get in". Perfect example.

    6. Cross: Jesus did not die on a cross. He died on a pole, or a stake. The Greek word translated "cross" in many Bibles meant just one piece of timber. The symbol of the cross comes from ancient false religions. The cross was not used or worshiped by the early Christians. Therefore, do you think it would be right to use a cross in worship??Deuteronomy 7:26; 1 Corinthians 10:14.

    1 Corinthians 10
    14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.

    Deuteronomy 7 26 Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Utterly abhor and detest it, for it is set apart for destruction.

    You can awnser either way but I am sure you can't get baptised unless you awnser correctly. I fumbled my question on the cross and almost didn't get baptized (I gave the wrong orgin). Also these scriptures only talk about idols and not symbols. They also say nothing about use in worship vs wearing. My point is not if you should ware a cross, but showing how the only way a person could possiblely get baptised is if they decided to let the watchtower tell them what they should do very early. Speaking of I notice the bible uses the word should too does that mean things like marriage is optional?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Most of the churches I go to don't have crosses in evidence (nor "poles" ).

    Since most of Reformed Christendom holds that Christianity is about a relationship with Christ, and that good comes from that, I'm guessing (just guessing here) that it's good to go for another couple of millenia...

    I heard of one African Christian group that only insists on Monogamy for office bearers, such as Elders and Ministers.
    Interesting interpretation, for a polygamous land, and strictly Pauline

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    I agree with you, except that there were many different Christianities in the first two centuries, and the theory of salvation and eschatology that you describe is really only representative of the kind of Christianity that was adopted as orthodox and survived to dominate the next two millennia. I am quite partial to Ebionism which focuses on an ethical Christianity by following the non-eschatological moral teaching of the synoptic Jesus, which lacked an orthodox doctrine of the atonement (which is based on the death of Jesus instead of following Jesus' counsel), resurrection (believing in a spiritual salvation from death like the patriarchs of old and regarding the "sightings" of the risen Jesus as visions and dreams), and a "second coming". I would view such a Christianity as better adapted to modern life than what you describe. Too bad that it pretty much died out (especially since it is the kind of Jewish-Christianity ideologically associated with James the Just and Peter).

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    Take this out of context scripture

    (Galatians 5:19-21) 19

    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20 idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21 envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God?s kingdom.

    (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) 9

    What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God?s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God?s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

    (Ephesians 3:5-7) 5

    In other generations this [secret] was not made known to the sons of men as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by spirit, 6 namely, that people of the nations should be joint heirs and fellow members of the body and partakers with us of the promise in union with Christ Jesus through the good news. 7 . . .

    Okay In JW theology the 144k are the only joint heirs. THey are the ones that inherit the kingom. So these scriptures in JW theology don't apply to the great crowd. So now this has been broght out many times to the WTS and they make you feel guilty then change the subject. For those of us in real life. Why hasn't anyone lets say fornicated then when the elders come say, "it is okay i am not annointed, but I feel repentant for my sin". Then when they ask you to stop sinning tell them you can't because you are imperfect and won't inherit the kingdom anyway. I would really love to see someone ride this out like shotgun did with his thing.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Hey, that's a very interesting point. The WTS always just uses "inherits the kingdom of God" to refer to everyone who will see the Paradise Earth, though technically the language of "inheriting" should really just refer to their posited "little flock". Nice. Another point is that dead fornicators, murderers, etc. would be resurrected anyway into the "imaginary" Paradise Earth; that is, the very individuals living in Paul's day who rejected the counsel of Paul and who died in their sins unrepentent, will still see the Paradise Earth and have a chance to live forever.

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    I have to look up those words you used LL, but I understand. This is a big problem. There historically was no "great apostasy" these were competing christian cults that simultainiously sprung up. This means the holy spirit was inept. How could it "Bear Witness" in all these apostates. If I am wrong I am sorry, but these dead cults are perfect examples of how the holy spirit did not do its job. So etheir the holy spirit did bear witness and God does not care, or the Holy Spirit is more nonsense.

  • zen nudist
    zen nudist

    THE JESUS MYSTERIES

    presents a different view of history and backs it up with more than öthodox christians ever could...

    thesis: Paul was a gnostic who adapted the pagan mysteries [ancient dramas taught to intiates in several steps] which was later abused by the roman church to suit its own propaganda ends.... letters like Timothy and the Thessolians were written by the church in later times to make Paul seem anti-gnostic.

    Jesus never existed as a real person according to this view, but was the symbolic godman myth of all ancient mystery schools with a new name.... the four levels of initiation are EARTH-- the myths are believed by the ignorant to be actual history. WATER-- still viewed as historical, the symbolism is explained. [to you I explain clearly, for them it is only parables]. AIR-- they symbology is received to be the critical components and the historical is revealled to be non-existant and irrelevant. and finally FIRE-- the person acheived gnosis, a direct experience of their oneness with the divine, they no longer needed any one to point for them, no longer required any tutor, but the law was now written in their heart by the spirit....

    The baptism into his death, represented the initiate dying to his former point of view and being reborn as a new being with new vision... the former things have passed away... he has now become heir of GOD and joint heir with Christ... he has become ONE with GOD as Jesus and GOD were one... the mystical union.... in HIM we live and move and have our being --acts 17:28.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan
    It all boiled down to the WTS attitude is legit.

    • judicial comittees
    • evil transfusions
    • blood fractions
    • demonised children's toys
    • vaccinations
    • aluminium
    • service hours
    • class structure
    • etc etc

    Which attitude?

    these dead cults are perfect examples of how the holy spirit did not do its job

    I disagree

    Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    All on the above. I said attitude. Imagine if the epistles where written today. They would be watchtowers.

    All they tell you is you are not saved as Jesus said you were. Most of them are a scathing criticism of the congregation and a few are filled with "New light" (Jehovah Only cares about the penis of the heart). Considering that the WTS believes Jesus granted them his possessions to manage they don't have to "back up" anything if they feel Jesus won?t like aluminum then it is unchristian to wrap your cold cuts in foil, but since cans have a plastic coating it is a conscience matter.

  • new light
    new light

    You're right, XQs, WTS is trying to resurrect some supposedly first century religion. Never thought about it that way. I had my own reasons for leaving, but its always nice to hear more. My Christianity is on indefinite suspension due to lack of evidence.

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