JanG, come clean!!!!

by Roamingfeline 28 Replies latest jw friends

Roamingfeline

The following quote is one taken from H20 AFTER you claimed on this forum that you weren't posting your "Compassion" post in order to incite guilt feelings within this forum:
I agree that if they feel that something is wrong with Rick then they are certainly shooting the wounded - but that is typical cult behaviour - they learnt this as JW's .... they just haven't learnt the compassion they so much desired to see within the organization themselves yet.
In the original post you put "Shooting the Wounded" in bold letters, effectively showing that you posted that diatribe in order to make people who were denouncing Rick and his methods of moderating his forum. You claimed in this forum that it was posted "for the newbies".
Also, in the same "Compassion" thread, I brought to your attention that your controlling tactics were proven by the fact that you sign people up to your "email list" without their permission, then when they NICELY ask to be removed, you totally ignore their wishes! I have it on good authority that I am far from the only one you have done this to. When I brought this to your attention, in order for you to possibly do some soul searching and ask yourself if you're not being a bit too controlling like the WTBTS, you came back with some ridiculous answer, about how I should have ASKED you to remove my name from your list in the first place. Jan, it is rude and bad netiquette to add ANYONE to your email list without their express permission or request. Furthermore, I had already stated that I asked you previously THREE TIMES to remove my email from your list, when you came up with that little jewel of an answer. Anyone who may be interested will find that answer in the "Compassion" thread on this forum.
My questions to you are: Why did you claim to have posted that to the newbies only, when your post to H20 proves conclusively that it WAS to incite guilt into former posters to H20?
And why do you sign people up to your email list without their permission, then fail to remove them from it when they request it MULTIPLE TIMES in a nice and polite manner?
Third and last, Why, when I asked you about it, did you try to blame ME and tell me I should have asked you to remove me, when I had in fact already asked you to MULTIPLE TIMES?
RCat
Jang

Glad you asked!
When I answered Joe I had that phrase on the brain.
I posted the original article, NOT because of what is happening on the boards .... but because of what had been happening to one of our xjws. It was bad enough that she was getting lambasted by her JW family about the death of a grand daughter being punishmet etc, but she was also attacked by some xjws.
After listening to her pain for three hours I decided to e-mail the compassion article to the e-mail groups and the list and also to the boards. The attacks came from people who received the article in the e-mails and who also lurk on these boards.
I did the basics in that article a short while back when a similar problem occurred on one of the lists I moderate.
I Posted the article here at 3 pm my time on the 17th about an hour after I finished talking to her. I answered Joe Black at 5 PM my time on the 17th. Yes, by that time I did see a parallel, but note I referred to the article on perfectionsim rather than the compassion article because I saw that as more applicable to the situation when I replied to Joe.
When I posted that article it was in response to a request I had received about that particular issue. It is a problem we all tend to have and is the thing that causes a lot depression among us when we are in the borg and when we come out. After e-mailing the article in answer to the request i thought about others on the boards who had also expressed discouragement and decided to post it.
Please note: When I post something about issues here or anywhere else I make it very clear when I post.
As for removing you, I checked back on my files and I have nothing other than your recent request.
Last December 5th everyone on my list was sent the following:
[QUOTE} I often send out jokes and news tidbits and you have probably been receiving these from me for some time. I certainly don't want to add "unwanted mail" to anyone's inbox. I just want to bring a smile to your face - if only for a brief moment. If you would rather not receive "yet another email message",please let me know and I'll stop sending them.
This also applies to News I may send out regarding the group you were
involved in or issues I believe may interest you. Please, do let me know if you do NOT wish to receive these also.
Please, do reply and let me know ......
Jan G
[/QUOTE]
I have a complete file of everyone who replied to this and there is nothing from you. Your last request was ambigious.
When I worked out that you and LadyWolf were one and the same I immediately ensured that you not receive further e-mails under your new name either.
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
Roamingfeline

Please remove me from your list, Jan. I'm getting wayyyyy too much mail to
handle, and I"m moving to the USA soon. Thanks!
Ms T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Groenveld" < [email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn,alt.support.ex-cult
To: "JanG" < [email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 4:49 PM
Subject: Common Psychological Problems of Mind Manipulation

Hi Jan,
Please remove me from your mailing list.. I'm shutting down this
account...getting ready for my move to the USA. Thanks!
T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Groenveld" < [email protected]>
To: "JanG" < [email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:48 AM
If you post them to Tishie's, Simon's, or H2O's new board, I'll get 'em. :-)
T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Groenveld" < [email protected]>
To: "LadyWolf/MsT" < [email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 3:23 PM
Subject: Re:
> On Thu, 24 May 2001, LadyWolf/MsT wrote:
>
> > We're closing this addy this week.. but I'll let you know when we get
over
> > to the US and are back up and running again.
>
> OK .... jsut needed to know since there are a few things in the wind I
thought
> you may like to be on top of <G>
>
> Jan
Jan, there's all three emails, complete with dates. How the hell you can get "ambiguous" from three separate POLITE requests I would sure like to know! This "not knowing who I was" stuff just doesn't wash. You knew who the emails were sent from, and you knew where you were SENDING the emails. It only makes sense that you should have known to take THAT PARTICULAR email address off your mailing list. Besides that, just the other night in the chat room, you asked me when we were going to the US? That was BEFORE all this was posted, so you knew EXACTLY who I was!!!!
How far do I have to take this to get you to admit you didn't do what was right? And do you admit that I'm not the only one this has happened to? Jan, how deep does this denial problem go?
RCat
Jang

EXCUSE ME RF!!!!
I worked out who you were on Saturday night the 16th Junewhen I read your profile on H2O after reading your last reply there!!!!!!
It was later that night that I let you know that I knew.
I removed your new name the following day. You did get the other e-mail Sunday night but that had been sitting waiting to send since early morning and i forgot to remove your name before I send it.
Your last e-mail to me is May 24th!!
That is definitely NOT after I worked it out!!!!!!
Note: In the e-mails you told me you would let me know when you were up and runnign again.... definitely not a definite REMOVE PERMANANTLY PLEASE!!!!!!
As I said ... Very Ambigious!!!!!
Denial is not my style.
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
Roamingfeline

Jan, I will type S-L-O-W. The address you were sending your email list info to was [email protected]. Never, EVER EVER EVER was [email protected] subscribed to your list. In fact, I personally NEVER subscribed to your email list. You put me on it without my permission. PERIOD.
Now, my email letters to you were dated in MAY, Jan. You KNEW WHO THE EMAILS WERE FROM, AND THEY WERE WRITTEN FROM THE SUBSCRIBED EMAIL ADDRESS. You didn't need to know WHO I was in relation to THIS FORUM in order to unsubscribe me. No my notes were NOT ambiguous, you just didn't DO AS I REQUESTED. NOW, when I call you on the carpet about it, you are jumping all over the place avoiding the issue!
Now Jan, DO YOU UNDERSTAND that I know you knew to take me off the email list, and I know you knew who ladywolf was and that she/I was asking to be removed from your list, and that it had NOTHING to do with who I am HERE?!? I am trying to point out to you Jan, that yes you DO subscribe people without their permission, and yes you DO fail to remove them from your mailing list when they ask you to POLITELY!
And I am not the only one!
RCat
Jang

RC .... according to what I have on my outbox you were sent an email from me on June 6th that said:
I saw your name on Simon's site. I am JanG from Brisbane, Australia. I often write to new names I see to let them know what is available on the net.
Did you know that there are private mailing lists for us that you are welcome to join ..... you will find a lot of support and lots of people to discuss things with ....to subscribe go to:
For us girlst only there are:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4xjwladies
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/women-awake
another list you can join is Jesus Witnesses ... its isn't a religious group despite its name .... but that is for both sexes.
to subscribe go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jesus-witnesses
and then there is : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ExJehovahsWitnesses
and : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xjws
and : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EXJW-HEALING
and : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pioneeroutreach
There is also a list called ex-cult-support where you can talk to people who have come out of a lot of different groups .... this can help you get a good perspective on what you hav been involved in .... We have a few xjws there
To subscribe go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-cult-support

I also send out tidbits on a regular basis, funnies and JWNews. If you prefer not to receive these, please let me know. Meanwhile, I will leave your name on my list until I hear from you.
Look forward to seeing you around
Jang
I have no reply from you in my files.
As for your previous address not being subscribed, I cannot check that since you have been on the list for a couple of years now and those files have gone.
However, during that time I did receive a couple of 'thankyou's' from you for things I send, and not once in the time you have been on the list have you ever requested to be removed.
Take responsibility for that will you please!
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
Simon

JanG
I appreciate all the work you put in and I'm sure you help a lot of people but I have to agree with RF that sometimes you are a bit too pushy and I too have tried, unsucessfully, to get my name removed from your email lists which I did not ask to be added.
That last bit is the key - by all means advertise what you do on forums, usenet, web sites etc... but let people request to be added.
I do find a lot of what you send interesting and it is now much better since you send out less but I think you could improve things even more by doing a weekly summary or something similar.
I sincerely hope you don't take any offence at this as I don't intend any.
Jang

I too have tried, unsucessfully, to get my name removed from your email lists which I did not ask to be added.

When Simon?
There is nothing noted on your other addresses details about anything like that??????
I do regulary asked people who don't want to be on the list to let me know. You were also someone who received the December 5th e-mail.
Everyone replied to that and who asked to be removed were removed.
I do wish some would stop putting it all on me.
I send out letters to people letting them know what I am doing, I ask them if they want to be removed on a regular basis, I check as often as I can. And still, people who have been getting e-mails for 2 or more years complain!!!!!!!
Sheeeesh!!!!!!!!!!!
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
Roamingfeline

That's not the point Jan. You're missing the point entirely, and I believe it is deliberate at this place in time. I ALLOWED you to keep sending me mail. I WAS TRYING TO BE POLITE. I didn't want to HURT YOUR FEELINGS,just like some other people I know who are on your list. But I STILL feel that signing people up to a mailing list is the Utmost bad netiquette and you should cease and desist doing it! Furthermore, I never got that email you referred to regarding being on Simon's.
We are strictly talking about my [email protected] account, of which you are FULLY aware that I asked THREE TIMES last month to be deleted from the list. You are also FULLY AWARE that you didn't remove me from said list until I posted it here publicly that you didn't! I have had at least FOUR people tell me that you did the same thing to them, and some of them are STILL having trouble getting removed from your mailing list. So as the title of this post says, "COME CLEAN!!!"
It's getting to the point where I'm feeling ridiculous having to argue with you in this manner. I didn't say your list wasn't interesting at times. Jan Groenveld, let me make this perfectly clear to you. NOONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SURE THEY ARE NOT ON YOUR LIST, WHEN YOU SIGN THEM UP WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! You are the one with the responsibility here, so take it and stop this denial nonsense!
I am tired of being polite about it. You're like a steam roller, barreling over anyone who stands up to you, and denying your own responsibility for this situation right and left! I'm done. I think I've made my point, and thanks to Simon coming forward and telling the truth,and several people privately telling me that it happened to them also, I can now let the matter rest, even if you don't admit your wrongdoing. Sigh...... it's a shame you have to take it this far to try to put the responsibility for your actions onto everyone else's shoulders.
RCat
AGuest

Unfortunately, RCat, JanG is spelled "D-E-N-I-A-L", which, when translated, means...
"Don't Even No It's A Lie"
Unfortunately, I've 'been there' with her, too. Not on this particular issue... but on... er, others.
JanG... honey... HEAR what folks are saying to you on this matter. It's not that hard, really. You WILL have to first stop talking, though... and LISTEN.
Peace to you all.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ

JanG, come clean!!!!

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