The resurrection of Jesus Christ

by enquirer 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  enquirer

  Hello, this is my first post. I hope I will receive some answers to my question.

  The Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead to die no more. Who was the Jesus who rose from the dead? I ask this question of Jehovah's Witnesses because it is my belief that the Jesus who died was the same Jesus who rose again on the third day, not a spirit. I understand that this is not the real belief of J.W's as they believe that the body of the Lord was disposed of. I cannot understand this because of the words of Jesus himself, when appearing to the disciples in an upper room after his resurrection: "So he said to them:' Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see,because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have' "(Luke 24 v.38,39. NWT)

  The above quotation is the plain words of scripture and I believe that they are there for a purpose so that we should understand the true nature of the resurrection of Jesus that He did indeed rise from the dead His flesh having not corrupted as God had promised way back in the Old Testament book of Psalms.

  Thankyou for listening, please let me know what you think as this is such an important subject and is vital to us all.
• 

  Double Edge

  Hi Enquirer. WELCOME to the board.

  I've never been a JW, but I have a friend who is one. Interestingly, the same question came up the other night with my dub friend, except they wouldn't admit that Jesus "disposed" of his body. I believe as you do, that Jesus had a physical body when he appeared after the resurrection. It wasn't like ours (mortal), but was physical in that it can be touched and felt. I never did get a good answer (then again, I never really do) from my friend. I just find it so much harder to believe some of the obvious things that have been twisted by the dubs..... like soul sleep... what's up with that?

  Again... Welcome !!
• 

  Narkissos

  Hello Enquirer,

  You may have a look at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67303/1.ashx

  Btw, may I ask: why do you ask? Were you ever a JW?
• 

  ellderwho

  The Jw will perform "scriptural gymnastics" for this topic. They"ll just try to move away from this as soon as possible. Especially if you show any kind of Bible knowledge.

  Whats even better is to ask the Jw "what came down from heaven"?

  My elder study and I spent months on this. In the end he still had no real answer.

  E
• 

  heathen

  I agree that the WTBTS explanation of what happened to jesus body is based on some opinion and not on scripture . We have discussed this on the board before . I don't have a problem with jesus being raised as a spirit but to say that his body was disposed of for the purpose of keeping early christians from using it in forms of idolotry is complete fabrication . Jesus did say at one point while discussing the temple in jerusalem being destroyed that if his temple was destroyed he would raise it in 3 days . I think jesus raised his own body and continued to use it until he went to heaven where he had to bring it to his father as the ransom sacrifice . It's kinda like when you read in jude and it talks about moses body and michael and satan were arguing over it , so I assume he takes things like that . There is a part where jesus says he has to take his ransom to his father . IMO
• 

  peacefulpete

  The NT reflects multiple traditions. It was later proto-orthodox Christians that sought to develope the stories that there was a physical resurrection (in the style of Jewish Elijah/Elisha stories) as opposed to docetic and adoptionist beliefs that, while varied, understood Jesus to be a spirit in human form or a human adopted by a spirit that left at his death.
• 

  zen nudist

  JWs have a very real blindspot when it comes to ressurection.... they are told by the GB that when a person dies, its over, they no longer exist in any way shape or form, but only as a memory in the mind of God.... no soul, as the soul is the entire living person and is as dead as the deased... no spirit, as the spirit is just a force that keeps one alive like electricity, it has no personality no memories, no consciousness...etc.
  

  this presents a real problem which JWs fail to see....they assume a continuity between the once living and the ressurected person... yet they have no theory, nor mechanism to account for this continuity. the only thing that the raised person has is the pattern and memories of the original...and there is nothing that make it more than a COPY....

  consider this... since pattern and memory are both data stored in the mind of God and God could, if he wanted to, use that pattern to make the very copy of you right this moment, there is nothing that makes that new person you... nothing that links its consciousness with your own, you KNOW it is not you...because YOU are over here and he is over there.... so by what magic does it become you just because you die? if it exists prior to your death, you will not magically become that one when you die....so why would you become that one if he is made after you? there is no fundamental difference...nothing linking the new consciousness to the old at all....the old person is dead and the new one is not him.

  taking this to an extreme, you are not the same person who went to bed last night, he is part of the dead past and you are a new collection of matter and energy... what links you to that one? why are you condemned for his sins? if there is no soul or spirit which is the real person, the consciousness that experiences all things, then we are just robots and there is no reason to condemn the current configuration of matter and energy for what a past configuration did, as a simple update can fix that.

  so who rose from the dead? if Jesus was a real human being who died.... and god invented a spirit being out of the ashes, its not even the same pattern of matter and energy, it could have the same memories, but so what? why is this new invented being Jesus? why should it be granted godhood for what his clone donor did?
• 

  ellderwho

  Zen,

  You make good points that a Jw cannot reason out.

  The question then must be asked; what is an "original"??
• 

  Carmel

  Dear Inquirer,

  Do you also accept the myths of Greek history? Mythra and others were to have been "born of a virgin" and bodily "ressurrected" ! How can you accept the hagiography of one "son of God" and deny the others?

  carmel
• 

  Tyre

  It's good for JWs to read this chapter below, as it's written . (bold and color added)

  1Co 15:1 My friends, I want you to remember the message that I preached and that you believed and trusted.

  1Co 15:2 You will be saved by this message, if you hold firmly to it. But if you don't, your faith was all for nothing.

  1Co 15:3 I told you the most important part of the message exactly as it was told to me. That part is: Christ died for our sins, as the Scriptures say.

  1Co 15:4 He was buried, and three days later he was raised to life, as the Scriptures say.

  1Co 15:5 Christ appeared to Peter, then to the twelve.

  1Co 15:6 After this, he appeared to more than five hundred other followers. Most of them are still alive, but some have died.

  1Co 15:7 He also appeared to James, and then to all of the apostles.

  1Co 15:8 Finally, he appeared to me, even though I am like someone who was born at the wrong time.

  1Co 15:9 I am the least important of all the apostles. In fact, I caused so much trouble for God's church that I don't even deserve to be called an apostle.

  1Co 15:10 But God was kind! He made me what I am, and his wonderful kindness wasn't wasted. I worked much harder than any of the other apostles, although it was really God's kindness at work and not me.

  1Co 15:11 But it doesn't matter if I preached or if they preached. All of you believed the message just the same.

  1Co 15:12 If we preach that Christ was raised from death, how can some of you say that the dead will not be raised to life?

  1Co 15:13 If they won't be raised to life, Christ himself wasn't raised to life.

  1Co 15:14 And if Christ wasn't raised to life, our message is worthless, and so is your faith.

  1Co 15:15 If the dead won't be raised to life, we have told lies about God by saying that he raised Christ to life, when he really did not.

  1Co 15:16 So if the dead won't be raised to life, Christ wasn't raised to life.

  1Co 15:17 Unless Christ was raised to life, your faith is useless, and you are still living in your sins.

  1Co 15:18

  And those people who died after putting their faith in him are completely lost.

  1Co 15:19

  If our hope in Christ is good only for this life, we are worse off than anyone else.

  1Co 15:20

  But Christ has been raised to life! And he makes us certain that others will also be raised to life.

  1Co 15:21 Just as we will die because of Adam, we will be raised to life because of Christ.

  1Co 15:22 Adam brought death to all of us, and Christ will bring life to all of us.

  1Co 15:23 But we must each wait our turn. Christ was the first to be raised to life, and his people will be raised to life when he returns.

  1Co 15:24 Then after Christ has destroyed all powers and forces, the end will come, and he will give the kingdom to God the Father.

  1Co 15:25 Christ will rule until he puts all his enemies under his power,

  1Co 15:26 and the last enemy he destroys will be death.

  1Co 15:27 When the Scriptures say that he will put everything under his power, they don't include God. It was God who put everything under the power of Christ.

  1Co 15:28 After everything is under the power of God's Son, he will put himself under the power of God, who put everything under his Son's power. Then God will mean everything to everyone.

  1Co 15:29 If the dead are not going to be raised to life, what will people do who are being baptized for them? Why are they being baptized for those dead people?

  1Co 15:30 And why do we always risk our lives

  1Co 15:31 and face death every day? The pride that I have in you because of Christ Jesus our Lord is what makes me say this.

  1Co 15:32 What do you think I gained by fighting wild animals in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised to life, "Let's eat and drink. Tomorrow we die."

  1Co 15:33 Don't fool yourselves. Bad friends will destroy you.

  1Co 15:34 Be sensible and stop sinning. You should be embarrassed that some people still don't know about God.

  1Co 15:35 Some of you have asked, "How will the dead be raised to life? What kind of bodies will they have?"

  1Co 15:36 Don't be foolish. A seed must die before it can sprout from the ground.

  1Co 15:37 Wheat seeds and all other seeds look different from the sprouts that come up.

  1Co 15:38 This is because God gives everything the kind of body he wants it to have.

  1Co 15:39 People, animals, birds, and fish are each made of flesh, but none of them are alike.

  1Co 15:40 Everything in the heavens has a body, and so does everything on earth. But each one is very different from all the others.

  1Co 15:41 The sun isn't like the moon, the moon isn't like the stars, and each star is different.

  1Co 15:42 That's how it will be when our bodies are raised to life. These bodies will die, but the bodies that are raised will live forever.

  1Co 15:43 These ugly and weak bodies will become beautiful and strong.

  1Co 15:44 As surely as there are physical bodies, there are spiritual bodies. And our physical bodies will be changed into spiritual bodies.

  1Co 15:45 The first man was named Adam, and the Scriptures tell us that he was a living person. But Jesus, who may be called the last Adam, is a life-giving spirit.

  1Co 15:46 We see that the one with a spiritual body did not come first. He came after the one who had a physical body.

  1Co 15:47 The first man was made from the dust of the earth, but the second man came from heaven.

  1Co 15:48 Everyone on earth has a body like the body of the one who was made from the dust of the earth. And everyone in heaven has a body like the body of the one who came from heaven.

  1Co 15:49 Just as we are like the one who was made out of earth, we will be like the one who came from heaven.

  1Co 15:50 My friends, I want you to know that our bodies of flesh and blood will decay. This means that they cannot share in God's kingdom, which lasts forever.

  1Co 15:51 I will explain a mystery to you. Not every one of us will die, but we will all be changed.

  1Co 15:52 It will happen suddenly, quicker than the blink of an eye. At the sound of the last trumpet the dead will be raised. We will all be changed, so that we will never die again.

  1Co 15:53 Our dead and decaying bodies will be changed into bodies that won't die or decay.

  1Co 15:54 The bodies we now have are weak and can die. But they will be changed into bodies that are eternal. Then the Scriptures will come true, "Death has lost the battle!

  1Co 15:55 Where is its victory? Where is its sting?"

  1Co 15:56 Sin is what gives death its sting, and the Law is the power behind sin.

  1Co 15:57 But thank God for letting our Lord Jesus Christ give us the victory!

  1Co 15:58 My dear friends, stand firm and don't be shaken. Always keep busy working for the Lord. You know that everything you do for him is worthwhile.