Shooting the Wounded - A Lack of Compassion

by Jang 30 Replies latest members adult

• 

  Tina

  Jan,What's with YOU? You're using manipulative emotional tactics now!
  Where's YOUR compassion,let alone ethics.

  I am very sorry about your daughter.Mentioning that family dynamic was not uncompassionate,on the contrary I mentioned that as a possible reason for what you do .If you dont want it mentioned,dont publicy post your problems then.

  After all you have written publicly about it here.
  I have no problem with compassion. You may want to look at yourself before pointing fingers. Anyone who uses wts tactics like you did here has some definite issues. Piss off Queen CoDependent1 right back at ya(and do listen to the trolls like mag-feeds yer ego Jan)
• 

  Magdaleen

  tina i reckon you oughta try the cousin itt look in a wig, it might help muffle things a little:

  
• 

  peterstride

  Please stop fighting!

  Not that I want to get into the middle of this...

  JanG had something to say and she said it. She didn't call people names, she didn't insult them, she didn't target minorities...

  I personally found her post informative, because it reminds us to look at ourselves with a bit more scrutiny. Obviously, some have raw nerves that are easy to get to if they subconciously feel that they are lacking in those qualities being mentioned (especially after being in the Borg), but that's the price we pay for freedom of speech. Would we rather be back in the WTS where anything we said that didn't exactly go along party lines, would be brought to the elders attention? Not me...

  I remember, back in the days when I was an active JW, that I would tell others to look at themselves also. Now I realize why I did (and sometimes still do) that. It's because I was lacking certain qualities, and by talking about it/telling others what I felt they should be doing, I was mirroring those things onto them. Sometimes, I was reinforcing it into myself to also do better. Hey, it's part of human nature to accuse others of something that we ourselves are guilty of.

  If JanG wrote something about compassion, why not just take it at face value, and not judge? Maybe it's Jan's way of trying to be more compassionate! Let's not judge each other...please.

  I like most of the posters here and I keep learning a lot from all of you! Yes, including Tina, outnfree, JanG (just to mention a few from this particular thread) and many many more.

  Love & peace,

  Peter Stride
  Toronto, Canada
• 

  CornerStone

  Hello Jang,

  Excellent post! It really hit home about compassion because of me and my father, (Lord, I don't want to go there!). If he does not drop dead soon I know that I will have to make some attempt at reconsilliation, and thats a hard thing when someone has wounded you so bad from childhood.

  But I know that compassion is a lesson taught that does not end. No one can ever say that that they ARE compassionate or that they somehow have ARRIVED at the state of being compassionate. Compassion is a work in progress. Better to let others extoll the virtue of compassion that you have and show than to claim that you have it yourself.

  So I think your post was right on the money, and it helped someone, myself. Thanks.

  CornerStone
• 

  Jang

  I am very sorry about your daughter.Mentioning that family dynamic was not uncompassionate,on the contrary mentioned that as a possible reason for what you do .If you dont want it mentioned,dont publicy post your problems then.

  It was the way you spoke about it Tina!

  I have been doing this for years Tina ... LONG BEFORE SOME THERAPIST STUFFED MY DAUGHTER UP! I have been on the internet for 10 years and on the Bulliten Boards until they were taken over by the net. I moderated the Cult Awareness International Forum on the Bulliten Boards for years.

  The very fact that I have been able to get past what happened to my family 6 years ago and keep reaching out to others speaks for itself.

  So let's put this in context.

  I have been doing support for 20 years plus.
  I organized the first annual ex's convention in 1981.
  I organized them every year until 1993.
  At those conventions we have had some well known guests like Randy Watters, Steven Hassan, Charles Trombely, Robert Countess, Robert Morey, etc.
  I have been on international forums since I got my first computer and modem in 1987. First the Bulliten Boards and then the internet (before it became popular).

  In 1994 my daughter was stuffed up by the therapists .....and at the END of 1994 we learnt what was happening.
  6 weeks later my mother had a stroke and became demented (she lived with us) and a week later, on Feb 24th, our 22 month old grand daughter was killed in a car accident. I buried one of my long term foster daughters on May 2nd. A week before my 50th birthday my mother physically attacked me the way she used to when I was a child and I finally had to let her go to others for care on my 50th birthday. A week later one of my oldest friends died.

  I could have done one of two things Tina. I could have just hidden under the sheets and said "Stuff the world" or I could learn to deal with it all and get on with life. I chose to do the second.

  Because I recognised my emotional state, I took a sabbatical from organizing conventions and doing counselling and concentrated on things like organizing our web page etc. When I was sufficiently healed from the trauma I took up where I left off. That is when I started posting to these forums instead of just lurking.

  Tina, I do this because I care about people and I love seeing people grow and become what they were meant to be. Despite what you think, I don't NEED to do it.

  JanG
  CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
  Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
• 

  waiting

  hey Peter,

  Nice to meet you - and thanks for your post. Fine points.

  Would we rather be back in the WTS where anything we said that didn't exactly go along party lines, would be brought to the elders attention? Not me...

  Not me either. Thought one of the reasons we left was so we could think and speak about all sorts of things.

  If JanG wrote something about compassion, why not just take it at face value, and not judge? Maybe it's Jan's way of trying to be more compassionate! Let's not judge each other...please.

  Man, as jw's we did some serious judging of others motivation, didn't we? And then the marking and/or "loving correction" wouldn't be far behind.

  Hey CornerStone

  No one can ever say that that they ARE compassionate or that they somehow have ARRIVED at the state of being compassionate. Compassion is a work in progress.

  An interesting thought. Like love, empathy, etc., emotions are fluid.
  And what might pass for compassion to you might look like spitefulness to me. "But I was trying to help you, sister, by pointing out what I think are your faults in front of others."

  hey jang

  I responded to this post over at H20 - some good thoughts. It can be construed to have a motive of conciliation between posters. Or it can be taken at face value. Because we all should be striving for compassion in our lives, even to ourselves.

  And I agree, compassion for another human is not subjugating yourself in co-dependency to that person. Just like standing-your-ground doesn't have to mean being an in-your-face-jerk. Wide spectrum of emotions and actions.

  I don't understand why people come down so hard on you for doing what you perceive as good work. You did/do/will do more for others than I'll ever accomplish, and you've overcome a tremendous amount of hardship in your life. It's like coming down on a homeless shelter for advertising that they're open and will help strangers. So you speak about things, so what?

  Another poster yesterday refused to answer my question about her post because she didn't like my attitude which she took it upon herself to perceive. She thought I was being sarcastic - I thought I was being quite polite. Go figure. I think sometimes you're being judged because of superlative words such as the "must". Doesn't bother me, but it sure seems to pi*s the hell out of other people.

  Anything I, or you, say can be taken for face value, or picked apart, or dismissed, for hidden meanings. To predominately look for ulterior motives in another person might make us miss the other person completely.

  And that could be perceived as a lack of compassion. At the very least, a lack of empathy, fellow feeling.

  Thanks for the information. I need it when dealing with my mother-in-law. She just irritates me to death, and she ain't gonna drop dead soon.....so I guess I'll work on compassion/empathy. Sigh......

  waiting
• 

  waiting

  Hello Tina,

  Usually you and I stay apart from posting to each other - on my part out of hopeful mutual respect for differences of opinions, at least on my part.

  Most everyone does what they can ,when they can.

  That's an unprovable statement. I truly believe most people do as little as possible for other people. Volunteering is not a high priority in the usa, at least. There are thousands, perhaps millions, of volunteers, but there are over 240 million of us. Very low ratio actually.

  Jw's are known to do as little as possible - in a real, helping way, for other people. But we can sell a trunkload of books to help them. We've not been taught - a lot of us our whole life, how to help mankind. How does an x-jw develop this compassion for their fellow man? Slowly sometimes.

  Unable to help your daughter,

  That's just downright tacky. I am a survivor, and so is my daughter, and I can relate. I had some young women do that to me on another thread (two different threads actually)- neither of which had absolutely anything to do with rape, etc., bring this up to me - because I sure didn't bring it into the thread. I resented it tremendously. They just didn't like my comments pertinent to the thread. It's not much different than picking apart a speaking Democrat because they're a rape victim, have cancer, whatever. Has nothing to do with the subject.

  Tou seem to overcompensate with others. Or are you addicted to this behavior?
  I dont know,I wonder.

  If you don't know and are wondering, it would seem in good taste and professional courtesy (and you have quite a few times presented yourself as a professional therepist) to keep your wondering to yourself.

  I mentioned once before that you needed help yourself.....Im still of the same mind......and dont give me that line that you're just fine......

  Again, professional courtesy would seem to behoove you not to blatantly belittle another person - one whom you seem to feel is hurting for many years. Just goes against good taste, imho.

  waiting
• 

  Tina

  Hello waiting,
  I do disagree with your thoughts.
  I am not here in a professional capacity. I never have stated that I am here in any way but'Tina".
  So as such I am entitled to my opinion/observation.
  I did not see that thinking jang's daughter being a possible motivation in (over)helping others as tacky,but you are entitled to think so.It was in no way belittling,if thats how you saw it...well.
  I also didnt see it in bad taste either. Too wonder aloud about possible motivations? Maybe it was bad taste on Jang's part to bring it to the fore publicly. That does put that info in the public domain. If it bothered her,it shows she lacks proper boundaries.

  This is a reason I give you wide berth,you do think you know whats 'correct' and proper for all. Our thinking is quite disimilar.
  With this,Ill leave it at that. Neither apologizing as I dont feel I did anything to apologize for. You are of course free to skip my posts as I do yours.Tina
• 

  waiting

  Hello Tina,

  As Jan put her daughter into the public domain - you put your professional therepist status in the public domain. I put my background in the same public domain. In fact, many of us have here.

  To call a poster's background into the picture on a totally unrelated subject matter is still questionable. Look at Tally's response to COMF for doing the exact same thing - four long threads worth. And Tally was hugged repeatedly, even by you.

  As a professional therepist, you know there's hot points for victims/survivors. COMF hit Tally's. You seemingly went for Jan's, as the other women did to me. Since you're not here as a professional therepist, it would seem better for you to not make posts where you wonder and guess at a person's mental health and/or stability.

  Take the posts on face value, in other words.

  Maybe it was bad taste on Jang's part to bring it to the fore publicly.

  Are you suggesting, whether as a professional therepist, or as a compassionate person, that a victim/survivor or their family should keep quiet? On this forum, masturbation, *fisting*, homosexuality, beastiality, rape, sports, nationality and all things in-between have been discussed. Are you suggesting that it's bad taste to speak of real - or imagined - abuse memories?

  If it bothered her,it shows she lacks proper boundaries.

  It shows that you're saying you're not here as a therepist - but lapse into professional therepist's words at your whim. It does not show that she lacks proper boundaries, imho. If she screamed and tried to rip your head off, or went into a deep depression for weeks, or hurt other persons - then lack of proper boundaries would be suspect.

  But to be *bothered* (exact meaning would be in the grey area) would seem to mean that she's human.

  It would seem that you, by your initial response to her post were the one lacking proper boundaries, for it seemed to bother you quite a bit.

  Whatever happened to live & let live for opinions and posts on an open forum?

  waiting
• 

  Tina

  waiting,
  I took exception to the manipulative(guilt) string that I and others saw in her post.
  No one has said here ,that one can't tell their story. That's what most of us are doing in bits and pieces most of the time.
  Whatever people need to talk about they should,no matter the topic. Im all for that. Silence is the killer.
  And she did scream at me and tell me to shut up. Again I will say,I thought that was a possible reason she over invests herself.
  You said whatever happened to live and let live on opinions here.
  Well that includes me as well.
  I stated mine,you dont like it,fine. Lets agree to disagree.Tina