by irishayes 32 Replies latest jw friends
I guess I would have a problem with believing God and Christ were separate because Christ paid the largest price ever--his life for us. If He is separate from God, then that would make Him greater than God, no
Big Welcome Irish! Fantastic interpretation!
Another reason I guess I don't understand the Trinity is because if Jesus and God are one then who was Jesus praying to when he was here on earth? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, the JW's are spoonfed the idea of Jesus and Jehovah as being seperate entities but I've found that other religons spoonfeed their children the idea of the Trinity. How is that any different?
When I was researching the Trinity I went in to a Christian Bookstore. The guy helping me took me to the children's section and gave me a book with showing an apple and explaining the Trinity as if it were fact. To me that is no diff. then the JW's teaching their beliefs on the Trinity being wrong. Who is right? I'm not sure that anyone will ever really know.
Desi
"The trinity is a false doctrine." That's what the JW's taught me for years. They have the 'truth', why should I question it?
I learned more from my encounters with others in the ministry work. I would reason with them using thoughts like: the bible says that when a man and woman marry, they become one flesh. How is that supposed to be viewed or explained?
Desi's thought was also good: Who was Jesus praying to when on earth?
The point of my post is this: The discussion would end by the other person saying something like, "I was born a Catholic, and I will die a Catholic.
People will believe whatever they want to believe. The issue of what is right or wrong gets dragged in and muddled but, ultimately, it still comes down to what people choose to believe.
I used to envy those that would speak of God in a way that suggested that their relationship was closer than mine. They knew him more intimately. I had to be more like them to attain that close relationship with him. My freedom came when I observed how they treated others. Worship is such a personal thing and I do agree that the WTBS is going to have to answer for misguiding so many.
I do agree with you that christians are just taught the Trinity doctrine. I never, ever even thought about it . . . until I developed an aquaintance with a JW. So I started doing some research, and I now feel confident, from searching the scriptures, that the Trinity is an accurate doctrine.
I guess I'm confused though. If you don't believe in the Trinity, then who do you believe the Holy Spirit is? Or Jesus?
Why do you need the Trinity to explain Jesus? Or the Holy Spirit?
Mustang
Because if they are not God, then who are they? The Bible says to have no other gods beside God. And if Jesus isn't God, then we would be guilty of idolatry, wouldn't we?
I do agree with you that christians are just taught the Trinity doctrine.
Not from my observation.
Why do you need the Trinity to explain Jesus? Or the Holy Spirit?
Agreed. On our road outa the borg, Mrs Ozzie and I left the big T till last.
Cheers, Ozzie
1) I normally don't do Arian/tRINITARIAN discussions. They are too time consuming, especially after you have seen a 100 or so of them.
2) As someone else pointed out: the tRINITY is the least of the problems anyone has to deal with about the JW's. It pales to the point of a non-event compared their REAL problems and the realities of dealing with JW's.
3) As I will point out: you are probably the 1000th non-JW/"XJW who went tRINITARIAN" to come onto this board with "the mission from God/Heaven/who knows where/???" to make JW's/XJW's accept the tRINITY. We've heard this before.
4) I don't believe God will bother me in the least if I don't accept the tRINITY. After all he didn't tell me in the Bible that I had to use the tRINITY. I would like to see the word "tRINITY" in a Bible. If it was all that important, the word would be there.
5) It seems to my observation that the tRINITARIANS are the ones who would make a God of Jesus; so if I am not a tRINITARIAN, I don't have a problem with idolatry.
6) I can understand the concept of a Father/Son relationship without a tRINITY. Jesus is the son of God, per the Bible. Besides, the two of them would only make a "Binity", if they were fused. The tRINITY only confuses things with logical absurdities, like why did Jesus cry out that God had forsaken him?.
7) I can understand the concept of a Source of Energy or Power without the need of a tRINITY. I am an Electrical Engineer who installs and maintains about a megawatts worth of Generators. Around here, I say who uses which Generator. If I say this 200 kW unit is ready for use and throw the breaker, I might effectively be viewed as the local "God of the Generator". But the Generator and I are not one (neither is the Generator or me the same as the Electricity flowing through the metallic interconnections), except that we energized the Load together IN PURPOSE. The same "Binity" discussion holds here, also.
The tRINITY: WHO NEEDS IT???
Mustang
one day years from now, people will discuss the various versions of the God-Jesus-Holy Spirit thingy the way we discuss about alternate versions of Greek mythology now. One man's compelling force in life is his far flung descendant's comic book character.
Om Mani Superman
3) As I will point out: you are probably the 1000th non-JW/"XJW who went tRINITARIAN" to come onto this board with "the mission from God/Heaven/who knows where/???" to make JW's/XJW's accept the tRINITY. We've heard this before.
You know, I'm really sorry you see it that way. I am genuinely trying to understand what those who don't believe in a Trinity DO believe about Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit. I don't have ANY mission.
