by Tower Man 12 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Everyone,
I posted this about 1 year ago and people seemed to really enjoy it. It's a simulated discussion about the Watchtower's main anti-Trinity booklet named, Should You Believe in the Trinity. The purpose of the article is not to validate or discredit the Trinity, but solely to examine the Watchtower's literary honesty or dishonesty. Check it out and tell me what you think. Here's the link:
http://www.towertotruth.net/ShouldYouBelieveintheTrinity.htm
Have a great weekend!
Tower Man
Some of (not all) of the Watchtowers arguments are valid --but I am sure you all know by now I tghink that the Trinity is the most God dishonoring doctrine of all
stillajwexelder Which Watchtowers arguments do you think are valid? D Dog
Why does the bible trace the ancestry of Jesus' earthly father to show he is a decendent of David when he had nothing to do with his birth?
If Jesus was also God, how could he accept himself as a sacrifice?
Maybe a better question would be, should you believe in a Jesus?
Right now I don't beleive in any of that story written by men, who are always making up some story about mysterious happenings in the past.
Ken P.
By the "word" we mean that creation with its infinite forms is like unto letters and the individual members of humanity are likewise like unto letters. A letter individually has no meaning, no independent significance, but the station of Christ is the station of the word. That is why we say Christ is the "word" - a complete significance. The universal bestowal of divinity is manifest in Christ. It is obvious that the evolution of other souls is approximate, or only a part of the whole, but the perfections of the Christ are universal, or the whole. The reality of Christ is the collective center of all the independent virtues and infinite significances.
For example, this lamp sheds light and the moon illumines the night with its silvery beams, but neither light is self created.
His Holiness the Christ is like unto the sun; his light issued forth from his own identity. He received it not from another person - therefore we give him the comprehensive title of the "word." By this we mean the all-comprehending reality and the depository of the infinite divine characteristics. This "word" has an honorary beginning and not a beginning of time. For instance, we say this person has precedence over all. This precedence comes to him through the station and honor which he now holds in life, but it is not a precedence of time. In reality the "word" has neither beginning nor ending. The letters of the "word" are those qualities which appeared in Christ and not his physical body. These attributes were from God - like unto the rays of the sun reflected in a clear mirror. The rays, the light and the heat of the sun are its qualities which have become manifest in the mirror. It is evident that these qualities were ever with God, even at this time they are with him, they are inseparable from him because divinity is not subject to division. Division is a sign of imperfection and God is the perfect one.
It is clear that the attributes of divinity are co-equal and co-existent with the essence. In that station there is absolute unity. This in brief is the exposition of the station of the Christ.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 148)
It is said that once John of Chrysostom was walking along the seashore thinking over the question of the trinity and trying to reconcile it with finite reason; his attention was attracted to a boy sitting on the shore putting water into a cup. Approaching him, he said, "My child, what art thou doing?" "I am trying to put the sea into this cup," was the answer. "How foolish art thou," said John, "in trying to do the impossible." The child replied, "Thy work is stranger than mine, for thou art laboring to bring within the grasp of human intellect the conception of the trinity."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 152)
carmel
Tower Man: The dishonesty in that broshure (and in similar WT articles at the time, such as on Justin Martyr, Polycarp, and Irenaeus) was for me, at the time, too much to take. I could no longer believe that an organization that lied so deliberately about what the Church Fathers taught was playing it straight with other claims it was making.
Re: "Should You believe the the Trinity"
Below are 3 specific refutations.
1. "Why You Should Believe in the Trinity" by Robert Bowman (easy to read book, great for beginners).
available all over the web
2. Yes ... You Should believe in the Trinity by Christy Harvey (more detailed and specific)
http://www.witnessinc.com/ordering%20materials.html#General
3. Exposing Should You believe in the Trinity by Angel Arellano (I haven't read this one yet, but it looks good)
God has ownership over all parts of this creation in my view. I also believe that we exist within God, yes, all matter - all energy.
Jesus is the very utterance of Jehovah, his word. Jehovah has ownership over his word and the spirit is the means by which almighty God affects the physical creation.
I believe that God is one and has ownership over everything that goes outwards towards creation. I do not personally see God as being divided within himself into 3 distinct units. Simply one unit, that extends outwards in whichever way he chooses.
This is ultimately just another feeble debate that divides us from his love and each other.
It is well known that the triangle has been used amongst pagans for many millennia. One could assume that this is to form the basis of counterfeit worship, or, one could assume that this sacred geometry is being twisted to insult the oneness of the almighty God.
Whatever - have a good day - keep on loving each other.
I would DEFINITELY recommend Angel Arellano's large booklet: "Exposing 'Should You believe in the Trinity'".
http://www.freeminds.org/sales/books.htm
It has hardcopy photostats of all the material the WTS references in "Should You believe in the Trinity".
The scholastic dishonesty is scandalous.
It may not convince someone of the Trinity (and personally I don't think that's the issue), but for me it really helped knock on the head the idea that the WTS were just misguided. I'm with Leo, on this one - the reality of that publication was a turning point for me.
the reality of that publication was a turning point for me
Me too!
Get a copy if you haven't seen it yet.
