Please help with list of ways WTBTS has gone beyond scriptures...

by FlyingHighNow 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. (Joh 10:16 ASV)

    Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. (Luk 12:32 ASV)

    ON THESE TWO SCRIPTURES, the WTBTS has segregated their flock between the anointed and the "other sheep" for final destination, leaving only 8,000 current members slated for "heaven" (and the majority of these are 'suspect' anyhow). In EVERY WT STUDY, with EVERY PROMISE OF HEAVEN, the "other sheep" scripture is trotted out to modify the promise for the JW faithful.

    This flies in the face of the many promises Jesus made, which the WTBTS insists are NOT for people today.

    Heaven (ouranos) - 282 references in the greek scriptures.

    Matthew 5:3, 10, 12 - only the anointed are meek? only the anointed are persecuted?

    Matthew 5:16 - let your light shine before men - anointed only?

    Matthew 6:1 - no reward from your Father in heaven?

    Matthew 6:20 - no treasures in heaven?

    Matthew 7:21, 12:50 - "other sheep" do their Father's will, but do not receive the same reward?

    Matthew 13:44 - a treasure for only a few?

    I could go on and on and on...

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    jgnat,

    I guess it's all from them pussyfooting around the fact that they didn't see armegeddon and go to heaven in those early years. Then now it's a way for them to lord it over the other sheep and act superior.

    Heather

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Heather,

    Here's one for you:

    "Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe there is only one true God?"

    "Yes, we do."

    "Doesn't your Bible say in John 1:1 that Jesus was a god?"

    "Uh, yeah."

    "If Jesus is a god then, according to your own Bible, either he's a false god, your religion believes in polytheism, or your translation of that verse is wrong. Which is it?"

    "You're either demonized, or an apostate, or both."

    "Just rebut my argument."

    "I won't waste my time. You'll die at Armageddon, just you wait and see."

    "Why won't you answer my question, dubbie? Dubbie? Dubbie? Where did he go......?"

    Farkel

  • blondie
    blondie

    If a man or woman had been sterilized before they were a JW, then it has no effect on their "privileges" in the congregation. But if they have it after:

    *** w99 6/15 27-8 Questions From Readers ***


    Since

    sterilization procedures are now said to be reversible on request, might a Christian view them as a birth-control option?

    Sterilization has become the most widely used means of family planning. For many people, its acceptability seems determined by social and educational background, as well as by religious views. The aspect of religious belief comes into play with Jehovah?s Witnesses, who share the psalmist?s desire: "Instruct me, O Jehovah, in your way, and lead me in the path of uprightness." (Psalm 27:11) What is involved in sterilization procedures?

    Male sterilization for birth control is called a vasectomy. Two small sperm cords, or tubes, in the scrotum are cut and blocked. This can be done in various medical ways, but the intent is to make it impossible for sperm to pass from the testicles. Female sterilization is called tubal ligation. It is usually done by cutting and tying (or, burning) closed the Fallopian tubes, which carry eggs from the ovaries to the uterus.

    It was long considered that these steps were permanent?that they produced irreversible sterilization. But some people, because of regretting their step or as a result of new circumstances, have sought medical help to undo a vasectomy or tubal ligation. With the advent of specialized instruments and microsurgery, attempts at reversal have been more successful. It is not uncommon to read that with selected candidates there can be 50 to 70 percent success in reversing a vasectomy by rejoining the severed ends of the tiny tubes. Rates of 60 to 80 percent success for reversing female tubal ligation are claimed. Some who have learned about this have felt that sterilization need no longer be viewed as permanent. They might believe that a vasectomy and tubal ligation can be viewed as being in the same category as oral contraceptives, condoms, and diaphragms?methods that can be discontinued if a pregnancy is desired. Yet, some sobering aspects should not be ignored.

    One is that prospects for a reversal can be hurt dramatically by such factors as the amount of damage to tubes during the sterilization procedure, the amount of the tube removed or scarred, the number of years that have passed since the procedure, and in the case of a vasectomy, whether antibodies against the man?s sperm have resulted. And not to be ignored is the fact that facilities for microsurgery may not be available in many areas, or the expense may be prohibitive. Thus, many who might desperately wish to have a sterilization reversed would not be able to. For them it is final. So the above-noted rates for reversals are really just theoretical, not dependable averages.

    Some facts bear on the realities. An article published in the United States on reversing a vasectomy commented that after the $12,000 operation, "only 63 percent of patients can impregnate their partners." Moreover, just "six percent of men who get a vasectomy eventually seek a reversal." In a German study about central Europe, some 3 percent of men who chose to be sterilized later sought reversal. Even if half of those attempts could succeed, it would mean that for 98.5 percent, having a vasectomy amounted to permanent sterilization. And the rate would be higher in lands with few or no microsurgeons.

    Consequently, it is unrealistic to treat male or female sterilization lightly, as if it were temporary birth control. And for the sincere Christian, there are other aspects to consider.

    A central point is that reproductive powers are a gift from our Creator. His original purpose included procreation by perfect humans, who would "fill the earth and subdue it." (Genesis 1:28) After the Flood cut earth?s population to eight, God repeated those basic instructions. (Genesis 9:1) God did not repeat that command to the nation of Israel, but Israelites viewed having offspring as something very desirable.?1 Samuel 1:1-11; Psalm 128:3.

    God?s Law to Israel contained indications of his regard for human procreation. For example, if a married man died before producing a son to carry on his lineage, his brother was to father a son by brother-in-law marriage. (Deuteronomy 25:5) More to the point was the law about a wife who tried to help her husband in a fight. If she grasped the privates of her husband?s opponent, her hand was to be amputated; significantly, God did not require eye-for-eye damage to her or her husband?s reproductive organs. (Deuteronomy 25:11, 12) This law would clearly engender respect for reproductive organs; these were not to be destroyed needlessly.

    We know that Christians are not under Israel?s Law, so the regulation at Deuteronomy 25:11, 12 is not binding on them. Jesus neither ordered nor implied that his disciples must marry and have as many children as possible, which many couples have considered when deciding on whether to use some method of birth control. (Matthew 19:10-12) The apostle Paul did encourage passionate ?younger widows to marry and bear children.? (1 Timothy 5:11-14) He did not bring up the permanent sterilization of Christians?their voluntarily sacrificing their reproductive potential to bear children.

    Christians do well to weigh such indications that God esteems their reproductive ability. Each couple must determine if and when they will employ appropriate methods of family planning. Granted, their decision would be particularly telling if there were confirmed medical assurances that mother or child faced grave medical risks, even a probability of death, with a future pregnancy. Some in that situation have reluctantly submitted to a sterilization procedure as described earlier to make sure that no pregnancy would threaten the life of the mother (who may already have other children) or that of a child who might later be born with a life-threatening health problem.

    But Christians who are not facing such an unusual and distinct risk would certainly want to use ?soundness of mind? and shape their thinking and deeds by God?s esteem for reproductive potential. (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:8; 2:2, 5-8) This would reflect mature sensitivity to Scriptural indications. Yet, what if it became publicly known that a Christian blithely disregarded God?s evaluations? Would not others doubt whether he (or, she) was a good example, having a reputation of making decisions in harmony with the Bible? Such a disturbing blemish on one?s reputation could, of course, affect a minister?s being qualified for special privileges of service, though that might not be so if one had in ignorance had this procedure performed.?1 Timothy 3:7.

    [Footnotes]

    "Surgical attempts to reconnect the [vas deferens] have a success rate of at least 40 percent, and there is some evidence that greater success may be achieved with improved microsurgical techniques. Nevertheless, sterilization by means of vasectomy should be considered permanent." (Encyclopædia Britannica) "Sterilization should be regarded as a permanent procedure. Despite what the patient may have heard about reversal, reanastomosis is expensive, and success cannot be guaranteed. For women who undergo reversal of tubal sterilization, the risk of ectopic pregnancy is high."?Contemporary OB/GYN, June 1998.

    Another law that might seem relevant said that no man whose genitals were severely damaged could come into God?s congregation. (Deuteronomy 23:1) However, Insight on the Scriptures notes that this evidently "had to do with deliberate emasculation for immoral purposes, such as homosexuality." Hence, that law did not involve castration or the equivalent for birth control. Insight also says: "Jehovah comfortingly foretold the time when eunuchs would be accepted by him as his servants and, if obedient, would have a name better than sons and daughters. With the abolition of the Law by Jesus Christ, all persons exercising faith, regardless of their former status or condition, could become spiritual sons of God. Fleshly distinctions were removed.?Isa 56:4, 5; Joh 1:12."

  • Jahna
    Jahna

    Thanks Blondie

    I read it but I don?t believe it! I left in 97 so I never read that Question from Readers. I never thought it was an issue. Now, I just am speechless. For a group that almost makes those with children feel guilty about it, and condemn those who use sterilization as a method to control the number of children one has, it is just amazing.

    I love the reasoning, btw...you might stumble someone. Oh boy, that seems to be the catch all phrase for everything. It?s not what is best for us/me but what it looks like to everyone else in the world. Who said you can please everyone anyways, and what if you stumble someone any ways. Good grief. I am stumbled just reading this crap!

    Jahna

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    "Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe there is only one true God?""Yes, we do.""Doesn't your Bible say in John 1:1 that Jesus was a god?" "Uh, yeah." Farkel

    Very simple but very good example. Thank you, Farkel.

    Blondie, thank you for finding that info on vasectomy for us. I think I actually remember reading that info. Someone must have given me that magazine.

    I love the reasoning, btw...you might stumble someone. Jahna

    Jahna, they don't seem to consider that some people just don't have what it takes to be good parents. Some people know they might abuse children so they choose not to have children. Is that a good enough reason for someone to get sterilized? I think it is.

    I used to see them caring what they looked like on issues like sterilization; but not caring about how they looked to those on the inside of the org when it comes to love and supportiveness. It just flew in the face of my good sensabilities. It's one reason I am here today posting on JWD instead of out preaching JWBS to people.

    This list is wonderful. Please keep adding to it. I bet we could fill several volumes.

    Flyin'

  • Undaunted Danny
    Undaunted Danny

    ANTI-MATTER. Are the Jehovah witnesses Physicists? That is One fraud tid-bit, that i remember from the1970,s. How in the watchtower's apocalyptic vision. Jehovah would use "Holy anti-matter", to dispose of the billions of bodies post apocalypse. The watchtower can no longer micro manage their web of deceit. It has spun out of control. Moreover, they refuse to face up to the facts. Rather, they get in your face and filibuster. Just more quantum quackery. Undaunted Danny the,'apostate with attitude' Thumbs Up



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