The Tale of the Five Army Officers (page 2)

hippikon

Good Re-post. I'd never seen it before and like it.

DevilsAdvocate_DA

Patio34,

In regard to your post to JanH when you said "What a twisted system!"

If you are referring to the WBTS system of disfellowshiping == I agree.

My hope is that one of these days they will get their reasoning in line with human life. They have in the past 20 years caused many spiritual rapes and stabbings by allowing their officers (elders) free rein to abuse.

DA

waiting

Howdy again!

This is such a good writing by JanH - and since I've posted it here twice before - hope he doesn't mind me bringing it up for all of us again?

Makes one think......even if one doesn't want to.

Thank you again, Jan, for this writing.

waiting

Imbue

Jan another interesting twist as you usually have with these things...

I don't see the explanation for the Christian God needing to prove His righteousness. Did I miss something?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The only good elite are dead elite!!"-Naeblis
(Ok! He borrowed it)

Yerusalyim

If I have to choose between a world where pain and suffering are meaningless, and life as we know it is all there is or a world where I have to try to understand why the God who acts in my life at some points fails to do so at points I would like him to, well, I'll take the latter. Were it the former I would despair, life would have no meaning.

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

Yerusalyim

This needs a deeper reply than the above though. JanH the scenario presented is missing some key elements in the "Why bad things happen to good people" arguement against the existence of God. It doesn't capture, at all, that to compromise the free will of one individual would mean the compromise off ALL free will. We then would cease to be human, cease to be capable of love or hatred, good or bad, justice or injustice.

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

waiting

Howdy yeru,

How's the family life going? Hope your lovely wife is doing well?

It doesn't capture, at all, that to compromise the free will of one individual would mean the compromise off ALL free will. We then would cease to be human, cease to be capable of love or hatred, good or bad, justice or injustice.

Care to elaborate? Which person's free will would have been compromised if God had stepped in? Btw, the Bible has many examples where God stepped in (miracles for his people). I guess one question I would have is why God so inconsistently steps in (if one believes the Bible or even the concept of miracles).

I understand the concept that we, as lesser creations, don't understand God's will. Don't have a problem with that. However, to only step in and help when he either feels like it or it satisfies a situation for him - seems rather self-centered. To step in just for the sake of stepping in to help is the making of heros.

I'm not jousting with you - I don't have a deep faith in God's arrangement anymore, just the average agnostic.

You are not an agnostic, Paddy. You are just a fat slob who is too lazy to go to Mass. Conor Cruise O'Brien

waiting

Yerusalyim

Whose free will? That of the Rapist. If HIS free will were compromised, then the free will of ALL must also be compromised. So it is with us if our free will is compromised we become less than human. Mere robots. There is no capacity for love or hate.

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

JanH

FYI, I did not write the article. I just originally posted it to H2O.

Yeru,

The free will defense is nonsensical and really mere handwaving. Free will has its limitations. How would God preventing people from doing extreme cruelty to their fellow beings be more of a restriction on "free will" than the fact that we have physical contstraints like having to eat, breathe and sleep?

In fact, the "free will" defence is ad hoc, which is demonstrated by the fact that it will prevent any sort of salvation plan from god's part. If God is able to prevent evil in the future, he would be able to do so now. If he isn't in the future, then the same evil and suffering will always continue, making "salvation" a joke.

Yeru, I think it is obvious where you are coming from when you state the following:

If I have to choose between a world where pain and suffering are meaningless, and life as we know it is all there is or a world where I have to try to understand why the God who acts in my life at some points fails to do so at points I would like him to, well, I'll take the latter. Were it the former I would despair, life would have no meaning.

Of course, in reality you cannot "choose" which universe you live in. If life is as you say it meaningless, then wishing for some big daddy in the sky to solve your problems, doesn't make it true. I can wish for having $1 million in my bank account, but it does not make it true.

Of course, those who find themselves being atheists, discover that such fears Yeru holds are groundless. We can create meaning for our lives, which surely beats deriving meaning from superstitious nonsense.

- Jan
--
- "How do you write women so well?" - "I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability." (Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets")

SYN

Devils_Advocate: So, how long you have been programming for?

"Vaccination has never saved a human life. It does not prevent smallpox." The Golden Age, Feb 4 1931 p. 293-4 - The Sacredness of Human Blood (Reasons why vaccination is unscriptural)

The Tale of the Five Army Officers

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