Christianity the biggest scam ever!!!

by William Penwell 54 Replies latest jw friends

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  William Penwell

  Reading a number of posts here it seems like a fair amount of posters are still into and pushing the Christian philosophy. I would like to start a discussion here that objectively examines the evidence and not base a belief on "blind faith". After leaving the Jdubs, I have read a number of books over the past few years. I wanted to see if there was ever any actual historical evidence to support the existence of a fellow by the name of Jesus existing. Out side of the bible and Christian writers, there is no evidence that a man by the name of Jesus even existed. What is others view about this topic?

  Will
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  JamesThomas

  It is difficult, usually impossible for us to change the fundamental religious beliefs we were raised with, because they reach so very deep within us that we come to identify them as an important part of who we are. So, in a way we who question others beliefs are threatening peoples lives. Do you have something or someone to replace Jesus? That we do not walk through life empty and void of meaning? I doubt that you do. j
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  little witch

  William

  Perhaps if you seek input of believers, you would have more sucess by not labeling the thread "christianity, the biggest scam ever",

  I mean, if you state things such, do you really think you will find differing opinion, or input contrary to your own?

  I don't say this out of meaness. I am using constructive criticism. Its just the way you stated your request is almost daring. Do you really want to discuss and recieve input or was this a jab at many well respected posters here who are christians?
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  Gopher

  This is a timely subject in view of today's release of the movie "The Passion of Christ".

  For many people, it's not even a serious question. They have no doubt that Christ existed AND did perform the miracles attributed to him by the early church writers, and to question it would raise questions about your sanity or logic.

  For others, it's not so obvious. There are many world religions, each with their own heroic or mythical figures.

  Most scholars believe there was a man named Jesus, although physical evidence from the first century to corroborate it is almost non-existent. There was a fraudulent "burial box" with the names of Jesus and James inscribed in it that made news in the fall of 2002. Why do frauds like this and the Shroud of Turin keep appearing? Makes you wonder.

  Some feel that the writings of Josephus strongly prove the reality of Christ. See this link: http://www.errantskeptics.org/Skeptical_of_Skepticism.htm

  My view? Jesus existed. Was he born of a virgin, and did he walk on water and feed thousands and heal the sick and the blind? It's hard to wrap my mind around all of that. Call me faithless, call me a skeptic.

  The way he is presented as "mankind's Savior in whom you must believe or you will be doomed eternally" leaves little room for doubt or questioning. Either he was "the Son of God" or a great fraud.

  I guess there's no room for middle ground, such as "he was a good teacher and ardent believer in his God."
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  Beans

  Awesome topic!

  Cristianity is soooooooo embeded into our culture and belief system. EG: Even if you don't believe in God any your child asks you where someone goes at death usually people automatically say there with the angels, its an easy answer!

  I just walk through life thinking I will find out what it's all about when I die, until then I'm gonna have fun! And you don't need a God or religious belief system to live life, treat people with respect and you shall prevail.

  I have no need to know why were here, nor do I care, were just here so drink some beer!

  Beans

  http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com
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  flower

  So, in a way we who question others beliefs are threatening peoples lives. Do you have something or someone to replace Jesus? That we do not walk through life empty and void of meaning? I doubt that you do.

  My mother posed those questions to me the one time I discussed my doubts about the society being who they say they are after I read C of C. " If this isnt the truth then what is?" she wanted to know. Your statement sounds kind of like saying that people cant survive outside of the Matrix. Like everyone will freak out like Sifer did and want to go back. Doesnt usually happen that way. I think most people would rather live in the real world then in a world where everything is fake. Yea there will be some who cant handle the truth but I think most thinking people would rather know the truth regardless of how devastating it is to their lives. I am glad I didnt run and hide when the truth about my life, my past, my religion and everything I ever knew was shown to me. People can handle it or not handle it.

  It is difficult, usually impossible for us to change the fundamental religious beliefs we were raised with, because they reach so very deep within us that we come to identify them as an important part of who we are.

  and yet every one of us here who was born and raised inside the jw religion has done just that.
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  gumby

  It is difficult, usually impossible for us to change the fundamental religious beliefs we were raised with, because they reach so very deep within us that we come to identify them as an important part of who we are.

  I though nearly every single person on this board has done just the opposite. Didn't we ALL leave the dubs? Has not many here also abandoned the christian religion? Unless I'm taking you wrong here James,.........I don't understand this statement of yours above. Hi Will........I really see much LESS christian topics on this board AND see fewer who even discuss it than before. Do you see it as a major factor here? You and I discussed this subject over a year ago at quite some lenghts on this board when I was questioning Christianity and the bible. I figured you didn't really even wonder anymore if a man names jesus as the bible describes existed. Are you still wondering...........or wishing to present what information you've learned about this subject? Just curious. Gumby
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  little witch

  Me too Gumby.

  I am unsure how or if to reply to William. I am not quite sure where he is coming from one way or the other.
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  garybuss

  
  
  William, I hope you move on and look at Judaism and Jewish history as well. There is a fair amount of secular history available on the subject. I had the thought one day, that if Judaism was not credible, then Christianity could not be credible, and if Judaism was credible, then Christianity certainly could not be credible.
  
  I read about 6 history books dealing with Jewish history and a couple dealing with the festivals, their origins, and their current celebrations and meanings. Another big help was studying the manners and customs of the Jewish people. Then I studied the book called The Bible with it closed. I think my favorite was the article titles, "The Bible" in the Encyclopedia Britannica.
  
  Then I studied the history of theism and read The Age Of Reason, Messianic Legacy, Holy Blood Holy Grail, The Demon Haunted World and The History Of God.
  
  The focus of my study of religious thought was the reliability and the weight and value of the assumptions I was using and the importance of the inerrancy and infallibility of the sacred writings to the thesis.
  
  In my opinion, I should have done all that before even thinking about studying Christianity.
  
  Thanks for the topic. GaryB
  
  
  
  
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  JamesThomas

  Your statement sounds kind of like saying that people cant survive outside of the Matrix.

  ,.........I don't understand this statement of yours above.

  It seems I was attempting to make a point, or set the groundwork for one, or simply confirm the fact that I'm an ass. Sometimes I don't understand what's going on either. Flower, have we really escaped the Matrix? Many ex-Witnesses are still Christians, a infinitesimal change of identity within the universe. A few others perhaps have changed to other beliefs: Buddhist, Wicca, New Age, or some other, or now call themselves atheists, a belief in not-believing. Little has changed. Even in the movie Matrix, when Neo escapes he is still the same guy. He never escapes from who he believes himself to be, so much as changes superficial situations. We are programmed very early with fundamental beliefs about who we are and our relationship to the universe. We rarely question any of it; and just because one day we call ourselves a Jehovah's Witness, and the next day an Atheist, does not mean our core fundamental beliefs have changed. They haven't. So, changing a Christians mind, doesn't change anything except ideas, which isn't much at all. It's as if we are watching a movie and have forgotten Who we truly are, or that we even exist. Perhaps, when we awaken, t he Matrix will seem an extremely tame movie, and Christianity will not at all seem like the biggest scam ever. j