I Find it all interesting!

by glode 36 Replies latest jw friends

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  glode

  Before i startm let mejust apologizein advance ifmy spacekey doesnt work properly!!damn keyboard! :)

  Anyways, i have been lookingthru theposts here for several weeks, i findmany of theopinions well thought out.

  I was raised as a JW, baptized at 20. i will admit, i dont agree withsomeof the fearmongering that goeson here.. however, i do think that if anyof the badexperiencs with the bros were to happento me, i would be out aswell, i fortunately have been in a very liberal cong. i would staylateinto the night at my gfs house, who lived right next to the PO, and hewould always say "hey! i saw your car there last night" so i guess i may have itlucky where i am.

  I alsodont fully careabout the doctrinalchanges that have happened in the org,like1975 or Generations, personally, i think a religion should bedynamic, or else it will fall behind.. it showspeople are learning, (this ismy view, i know alot of you feel they changeintentionally)

  Anyways, my point tomakeis this, where i am fromat least,we arenotall fanatical sheep.. i andall my friends, do alotof THINKING forourselves, and unless something isfound in the bible, i take it asopinion.. yes, i watch survivor, friends, my gfplayedon herhighschool teams, andi dont seeanything wrong withgoing to R ratedmovies!

  just wanting to see the feedback!
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  Gopher

  Glode,

  Welcome to the discussion group. I'm glad you find it interesting, as your title says. I hope you hang around a while longer, there's a lot more to learn!

  Your experience indicates that certain standards are not applied equally across the organization. (1) Staying late at your girl friend's house, that would get you called into the conference room in many congregations. (2) Your GF played on her high school teams. If you read the brochure "School and JW's", I believe that's the one that specifically outlines the fact that JW's don't participate in extra-curricular activities. (Their real reason, it takes away from your time for study & ministry. (3) You attend R rated movies, which if you are in the USA, means no children can attend these unchaperoned. However, at age 20 you are expected to be "reaching out" for the position/privilege/whatever of Ministerial Servant. Another however: where I came from, if you were seen attending R rated movies, it would call your qualifications into question.

  About the doctrinal changes and "thinking for yourself": You surely understand that if you express doubts about what the WT Society teaches as the "current truth", you will be viewed with suspicion, possibly questioned for apostasy. (Again, things may be more liberal where you are, but I am speaking of the majority of places). I'm glad you say you "think for yourself", and view unprovable teachings as only opinion. But that is at odds with the loyalty expected by the organization. They have clearly stated that loyal JW's accept the WHOLE RANGE of teachings that are unique to the JW's.

  Because of some of the above inflexibilities & inconsistencies, along with "bad experiences" you alluded to, many reasonable people who were once loyal to the WT Society have concluded (1) it is not the solid foundation of truth it claims to be (because that "truth" keeps going back and forth), and (2) the love Jesus said would mark true Christians, real unconditional love, is unfortunately not the mark of JW's. They keep their people in check by means of "fear", fear of marking, shunning and disfellowshipping. As stated in the Greek Scriptures "There is no fear in LOVE, for perfect LOVE throws fear outside".

  Some things to think about. I enjoyed your post.

  GopherIt is not best that we all should think alike, it is differences of opinion that make horse races.
  Mark Twain (1835-1910)
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  philo

  I find this comment interesting.

  :I watch survivor

  Can anyone tell me why some Witnesses appear to find watching Survivor unacceptable? It seems tame to me.

  philo
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  Mazza

  Hi Glode, Welcome to this discussion forum. Of course you realise that we all now have to put you right? :-)

  It sounds like you have a good attitude AND an open mind. Cripes, are you sure you are in the Watchtower Society? Like Gopher says - standards are different around the world - clearly. Especially in places where the culture will not tolerate too much family interference. I am writing from Hong Kong. When I first visited the Branch Overseer here to ask if I could visit my JW father who had just suffered a massive heart attack - the BO gave me his blessing and wondered why I would even ask him such a thing. When I turned up in Australia to see my father, the elders there were p'd off that the BO in HK had given me the ok. To cut a long story short the Branch Overseer eventually got told the score on how the Society treats disfellowshipped family members. I guess the BO hadn't processed this WT ruling, because the Chinese are very big on family relationships - the Society would have to tone down their attitude here, if they want to any recruit for their local congregations . ( I was disfellowshipped cause I lost faith in the WTS and God - I wasn't a serial murderer or anything yukky!) Just a normal decent person who couldn't keep up a life that no longer made sense to me.

  I've gone 20 yrs now - cut off from my family for the crime of daring to leave The Sect. I have not met some of my siblings grown children.

  Doesn't that strike you as rather OTT (over the top)?

  Anyway - I'm looking forward to your no doubt barrage of responses. I hope you will give as good as you get! :-)

  Do you want me to send you a new key board? You might need one if you plan on sticking around!

  Marilyn
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  thinkers wife

  Welcome to the board Marilyn,
  Glad to meet new one's. Enjoy!!!
  TW
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  Gianluca

  Hello Glode,

  Welcome to the board. I'm sure you'll enjoy your visits.

  Ciao
  Gianluca
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  glode

  Hi Gopher,

  Thanks for your reply! I found it really thot-provoking!

  In case you were wondering, I am in BC, Canada, just so no one thinks I am making this up in some magical realm of nonexistence. J

  To your specific points, my gf (soon to be fiancée J) and I, when staying late into the night at her place, we would be talking, cuddling, watching movies, etc, nothing that would cross the line, herein my cong, the elders get involved if someone goes to them with a specific case, either they know someone else was having sex etc, or they themselves felt they went too far (this standard differs from person to person, as there is no real definition of what too far is) so, since me and her weren’t having sex, there is no wrong doing, and if anyone asked, that is what I have told them, in fact some people have questioned me about it, almost casually, and i always respond with “yeah, I was there last night, watching movies or hanging out, so what?” or “yeah, we went to a movie and dinner” we are doing nothing wrong, so there is no need for any trouble.

  As for sports teams my gf thinks that as long as she devotes enough time to study, which she does, (did, since she is now gradded) then she is fine, and she is.

  We both are university educated (I took 3 years) and she is still attending, I have always, and vocally, stated to many people in the cong whenever a statement about university was made negatively. I (and many others around here) are never impressed with the 14yr old pioneers and crap like that at the assemblies. I always hear elders saying “she should go to school, learn about the way the world works” etc etc. I realize it is not like this everywhere, indeed when i visited australia, they were significantly more anal about being a pioneer.

  I am well regarded in our cong, as you point out, I am at the age where I am being considered for MS, I do the sound, mics reading for the WT etc.

  I hate both extremes, I hate the overly conservative, who don’t budge in their beliefs at all, or think for themselves, one sister said tome to justify her argument was “read the articling the awake” that is so incredibly dumb, think for yourselves people!! I have thought for myself, and my beliefs are inline with the JW doctrine, some of their actions in everyday living I take issue with, but to me, that’s personal jurisdiction, I decide how to run my life outside of the pervue of the cong. As long asi don’t violate a scriptural command, I am good.

  I also take issue with ppl (many on this board)who assume because of one persons imperfections, that all witnesses are sheep or thoughtless people, just trying to shun everyone or cover crimes etc. we, like any group, is made up of a large gamut of people with their own problems, and unique qualities.

  Hope I can keep peoples minds open, on both sides of the debate! J
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  Prisca

  Nice to meet you here on the board. You sound like a pretty cool guy!

  Like you, I was raised as a witness. I was one of those who never went to college, as it was discouraged at the time. I'm glad you and your g/f have both been able to go - I hope it helps you in the career that you choose.

  I know not all witnesses are mindless sheep or thoughtless. Some of them are well-intentioned, but there are a large number (read, most) who don't know the full story, and they should.

  I appreciate your open-mindedness. Your congregation is VERY liberal, and think yourself lucky to have grown up in a cong like that. The one I grew up in was quite the opposite.

  I wish you all the best, and look forward to further posts from you.
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  DrunkWithLiberty

  Glad to have you here glode.
  All I have to say is, "pray you never have to move".
  Most of all you mentioned would not be tolerated in the vast majority of kingdom halls, and that is not due to area differences, but due to what is written in the publications. I do agree with you that there are different standards and viewpoints in different areas, but your hall seems to be ultra liberal. I myself had to quit the tack team to get baptised because of what was written about extra curricular sports in the school brochure. Yes, I could have gone ahead and continue, but then I would have been marked as spiritually weak and not humble enough to follow the words of the slave.
  Have a great day, Angeleah
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  Abaddon

  glode;

  I too grew up in a liberal Witness environment. My family although not highly educated were very liberal. Our dinner table conversations could sound like plates would start flying the debtes were so spirited.

  My family's friends were largely composed of the JW intelligencia of central London, as well as brothers and sister visiting from around the world. We travelled to Europe and North America, although not well off, enjoying the hospitality of the 'friends'. I had a good life as a kid, really, as birthdays and Christmas are not that big a deal, and everywhere I went I was surrounded by nice people.

  The hardline elders and CO's were always viewed in a rather tolerant light, as in something that had to be tolerated, the rough with the smooth.

  All my nephews have been to University.

  So I know where you are coming from, and I know how much harder it is to see the wood for the trees when you do grow up in a good environment like that. I was in until I was in my late 20's.

  Then I walked away.

  Why? Because it is not the truth. Because it imposes strict standards of behaviour on its adherants, based upon the premise that it is the truth, and punishes infringements harshly.

  You might be happy that you get away with leading a comparatively normal life, staying late at your girlfriend.

  What about those that live in areas where the letter of the law laid down in the societies publications is more strictly enforced?

  They would probably be disfellowshipped by now for acting like you. None of their friends would speak to them. They would be shunned.

  Are you happy with associating with an organisation that is so unfair just because you have it easy?

  AND, if you started to complain about this unfairness, how long do you think that your protests would be allowed to continue before YOU were dealt with, even in a nice liberal environment?

  Think about the Watchtower study. When was the last time someone asked a question that wasn't written down at the bottom of the page? That's not STUDY; you've been to college, you know what study is, and it is not learning to give answers contained in paragraphs above the questions which must not be strayed from.

  You are in an organisation that does not allow dissent and that punishes dissenters harshly.

  It you allowed a future child to have a blood transfusion you would be viewed as disassociating yourself and none of your friend would talk to you; if they did, they could be disfellowshipped.

  Answer me two questions;

  1/Are you happy supporting THAT sort of organisation?

  2/Do you actually think it is THE truth?

  All the best and congratulations on being as open minded as you are; I don't intend to give you a hard line but I know the path you're on as I walked the same way my friend.