"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth 39 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  CitizenofEarth

  Hello folks. As some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder. Otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me. Not physically forced, but i am confident yu all know what the implications wold be if i denied. Especially for me who is dependent on my parents supporting me at home while i educate myself.

  The first question i will pose is: What is the scriptual basis for interpreting the 144000 as a figure to be taken literally? Almost everything else in Revelation 7 is interpreted symbolically, as fx. the 144000 coming from the 12 tribes, and that 12000 will be taken from each. All other descriptions in connection to with the 144000 such as virginity, that they originate from the 12 tribes, that they are wothut defilement and that the lamb and the fathers name is on their forehead is interpreted as symbolic, but the figure is taken literally. Why?

  I have only been able to dig stuff up in the library, but they all, of course, support their own viewpoint, so i am a bit stuck. If you are able to help me to fx. have some answers i can throwback at him to the answers he give, i would be a very happy person. I wouldnt even know what reasons he would give to interpret it that way, but i am guessing that some of the more experienced here has gone through this question before, maybe you even have some notes on it.

  Thanks to you all very much in advance - your help has already topped the ones i have recieved from my so called brothers in the congregation.
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  sparrowdown

  (Difficult I know) but have you considered just playing along with their delusion by saying what they want to hear and doing a bare minimum until you can leave home?
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  berrygerry

  There is no "go-to" question to ask a cult member.

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/helping-someone-leave.php
  
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  sir82

  As I recall, the answer is that the number of "lambs" in the verse is just one (there is only one Jesus, of course).

  So, since the number "1" is literal, then the number "144,000" in the same context "must" be literal too.

  Of course, that answer makes no sense whatsoever, but that is I think more or less what you'll get.
  
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  CitizenofEarth

  sparrowdown
  (Difficult I know) but have you considered just playing along with their delusion by saying what they want to hear and doing a bare minimum until you can leave home?

  I havent thought about it in that way. I was raised to be upfront and vocally honest, but maybe it would be wiser to stay quiet. I will certanly contemplate a bit over that before i reach a decision. Thanks for your speedy response.
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  CitizenofEarth

  sir82
  As I recall, the answer is that the number of "lambs" in the verse is just one (there is only one Jesus, of course).
  So, since the number "1" is literal, then the number "144,000" in the same context "must" be literal too.
  Of course, that answer makes no sense whatsoever, but that is I think more or less what you'll get.

  Indeed it doesnt make sense to me neither. He wouldnt take "it doesnt make sense" for an answer, so what do you guys think would be a more proper response to such a argument? On the top of my head it propably wouldnt suffice to say: "Just because one number is taken literally doesnt mean another should be."
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  sparrowdown

  And in normal circumstances I would say that honesty is the best policy but JWs don't respond to honesty like "normal" people you may be opening yourself up to years of heartache.

  Your decision, but play your cards wisely and at the moment if you are awake and they are not then in one way, technically you have all the cards.
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  stuckinarut2

  Always fall back on this type of statement:

  "I have made it a matter of sincere and earnest prayer, and Jehovah has clearly shown me that....(insert whatever you like)"

  That way, they can never belittle or argue your comment, because you PRAYED to Jehovah about it, and saw "his clear answer and direction" to your prayers....
  
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  CitizenofEarth

  stuckinarut2
  Always fall back on this type of statement:
  "I have made it a matter of sincere and earnest prayer, and Jehovah has clearly shown me that....(insert whatever you like)"
  That way, they can never belittle or argue your comment, because you PRAYED to Jehovah about it, and saw "his clear answer and direction" to your prayers....

  I see why that would be benficial, also so that i may not be accused of thinking independently - since that seems to be a problem in the Org now too.
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  stuckinarut2

  Yes citizen, they can never dare to question "god's answers or direction" as a result of your prayers!

  Use that when it comes to any situation or topic.

  But make sure you come across sincere as you say it.