by barbar 21 Replies latest watchtower bible
For many years I have wondered about the Nephalim, sorry if this is a previously asked question.
I don't undertsand how the angels could have got women pregnant. Surely they did not have any inherent capabilities of producing life.
It seems to me that only a creator would have that ability. So how did the angels get the women pregnant?
Any thoughts?
Uhhh... it's baloney?
My question is: Why would angels get horny? According to Jesus, they don't reproduce, so why would they have a sex drive at all?
Nathan I've never heard it referred to as being a baloney before, sausage, pepperoni or puddin maybe but never baloney.
There have been a few very good discussions on this subject barbar.
Instead of going to indepth I'll try to look up the previous threads and post the links.
Welcome to the forum
Initially the story was not about angels at all. It emerges in a polytheistic context, where "sons of gods" (later interpreted as "sons of God" with capital) only meant "gods". So what we have here is a mythological story very similar to Greek mythology, where gods have intercourse with women (or goddesses with men) and beget (or give birth to) semigods, heroes and the like.
What I always wondered about this story was why were they drawn as angry bullies in the My Book of Bible Stories book. I mean if their fathers were perfect beings wouldn't they have half perfect personalities? I wish I could work with people with half perfect personality's!
Were they angry cause they couldn't go back to heaven with thier daddies? Were they bullies cause they had lager than normal apetites and they were in a constant state on hunger?
We want to know, whats the deal?
According to Jesus, they don't reproduce, so why would they have a sex drive at all?
That is not quite what Jesus said... he said that Angels did not marry. He never said anything about doing the nasty. Therefore, if people that are resurrected will be like the angles (Able to knock-up women but not getting married) then that mean the paradise will be a Free Love Zone!!! Woo Hoo!
if people that are resurrected will be like the angles (Able to knock-up women but not getting married) then that mean the paradise will be a Free Love Zone!!! Woo Hoo!
I'd be a little careful with the woo-hoos. As far as I know, all angels are male. So, all resurrected people will apparently be horny men. I'm not sure that I want to survive Armageddon....
Seriously? I see all the previous replies have made a joke of this.
Genesis ^:1-4, and Numbers 13:33 are the only places(I believe) the Nephalim are mentioned. Looking at the Genesis account, which reveals more (though still not enough for a concrete determination), it says: 1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with [1] man forever, for he is mortal [2] ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."
The only logical conclusion UI can come top is that these angels perhaps possesed the finer male specimens, and somehow genetically altered their sperm, not too far fetched if one believes the Bible as the inspired word of God, and that Demons are fallen Angels who were created perfect and were allowed to observe God's creation, including humans, for eons..
Without getting in to how genetics are influenced through adaptation, it would seem possible that highly intelligent spirit creatures would have more knowledge on human genetics and modification theeof, than we as humans currently have.
BOTTOM LINE, though, is this is trivial and has nothing to do with our salvation. That is one of the reasons I lefyt the JWs, because they don't know what's inportant to teach as neccessary for salvation, and what's not.
This clearly falls in the latter category.
For an example of how this story was built upon when Judaism became monotheist and the gods consequently became angels, cf. 1 Enoch 6--8:
1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, 8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.
[Chapter 7]
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
[Chapter 8]
1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all 2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they 3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .
Just a few comments: (1) the "incarnation" of angels does not appear as an issue. They just have to come down (on the mountain tops) and proceed; (2) their intercourse with women is described as monogamous marriage; (3) they teach women and men (in this order) sorcery, astrology, making weapons and... cosmetics.
In other sources we have quite a different take on the aforementioned points. For instance in Testament of Ruben, chapters 5--6:
For evil are women, my children; and since they have no power or strength over man, they use 2 wiles by outward attractions, that they may draw him to themselves. And whom they cannot 3 bewitch by outward attractions, him they overcome by craft. For moreover, concerning them, the angel of the Lord told me, and taught me, that women are overcome by the spirit of fornication more than men, and in their heart they plot against men; and by means of their adornment they deceive first their minds, and by the glance of the eye instill the poison, and then through the accomplished 4 act they take them captive. For a woman cannot force a man openly, but by a harlot's 5 bearing she beguiles him. Flee, therefore, fornication, my children, and command your wives and your daughters, that they adorn not their heads and faces to deceive the mind: because every woman 6 who useth these wiles hath been reserved for eternal punishment. For thus they allured the Watchers who were before the flood; for as these continually beheld them, they lusted after them, and they conceived the act in their mind; for they changed themselves into the shape of men, and 7 appeared to them when they were with their husbands. And the women lusting in their minds after their forms, gave birth to giants, for the Watchers appeared to them as reaching even unto heaven.Here it is not marriage, rather fornication; the temptation of the angels is first a temptation of their mind, and they have first to "change their shape"; the temptation is caused by preexisting womanly art...6 1 Beware, therefore, of fornication; and if you wish to be pure in mind, guard your senses from every 2 woman. And command the women likewise not to associate with men, that they also may be pure 3 in mind. For constant meetings, even though the ungodly deed be not wrought, are to them an 4 irremediable disease, and to us a destruction of Beliar and an eternal reproach. For in fornication 5 there is neither understanding nor godliness, and all jealousy dwelleth in the lust thereof.
