"Immortal Soul" - A Watchtower Doctrine! (page 2)

ellderwho

Steph,

"continue working out your salvation"

Seems to be exclusive to Jw speak/doctrine.

Will Power

Immortal - live forever - whats the difference - they say the same thing - the essence is the same it is the details that they endlessly HARP on & on about

and where did this goofy hellfire doctrine come from anyway? couldn't be the bible's description of the bad being thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE that burns for ever & ever. See what happens when people take this book literally? I was raised a catholic and very early on learned how being without God would be like a torment. People who take everything literally will be in big phsych trouble on their deathbed.

Satanus

Early american evangelists, like jonathan edwards of the 18th century, were big time into hellfire. They scared the bejeezs out of the heathen cowboys, back then, moving many to have wierd experiences. http://www.longmeadow.org/hist_soc/awakening.htm

SS

Narkissos

Actually, the official doctrine of larger churches (which may include immortal soul, hellfire and so on) is not repeated to people every week, and lay people are not supposed to be able to defend it -- lest teach it -- unto the last detail. That makes a big difference, with the practical consequence that members of any large church may have a very wide variety of beliefs whereas the official teaching of the church may be widely forgotten.

worldlygirl

My JW ex-husband went with me to my Grandma's funeral (Methodist) and the minister shared a brief sermon. I asked him afterward to name one point that the minister made that was different from what he believed and (other than the obvious...Heaven) he couldn't - - he finally sputtered something about the cross being on display in the pulpit.

dustyb

Steph,

"continue working out your salvation"

Seems to be exclusive to Jw speak/doctrine.

heh, i like this verse because a lot of JW's here use it to justify working for their salvation, but what they don't get is that, in context this verse says that god is working from within us, but dubbys use it to say that we need to work FOR and not work OUT...so ya

Stephanus

Actually, the official doctrine of larger churches (which may include immortal soul, hellfire and so on) is not repeated to people every week, and lay people are not supposed to be able to defend it -- lest teach it -- unto the last detail.

This is an important point and something that I'm trying to bring out here, very clumsily, I'm afraid. I'm certainly not trying to say that churches don't have the basic doctrines that the Dubs refer to using their own buzz-words - I've heard sermons on Hell and sermons about choices now determining how one fares in eternity (that "immortality" thing) (in both areas, only occasionally - never as frequently as those issues come up when the Dubs at the door are trying to dictate to you what you believe). But I've never heard a sermon on "Hellfire", nor on the "Immortality of the Soul".

On the "immortal soul" issue, I should also point out that the term "soul" isn't even used in churches to denote the immortal part of one's being; it is the spirit that goes on to eternity, in pretty well every church I've been in. It's actually an interesting example of how frozen in time the 'Tower actually is. In Russell's time, the term "soul" was often used in churches to denote the part of a person that the term "spirit" now refers to. "Immortality of the Soul" is like a snapshot of the past showing how things were when Russell was defining the points of difference that he had with mainstream Christendom. What it shows is that the main thinkers/writers in the 'Tower haven't been outside the walls of Bethel in a hundred years! After all, it is a given that a Dub in good standing such as a senior Bethelite is not going to sully himself by attending Christian churches, so he will have no idea what Christendom has been teaching since the Judge declared it all off limits and part of Babylon the Great in his early presidential years. So, even though Christendom has moved on and changed its terminology and its understanding of some doctrines, the 'Tower continues to hold it to and take it to task for stuff that hasn't been true for nearly a century.

I must admit that for years I tried to enlighten Dubs at the door on what the various churches actually do believe about the things the Dubs like to harp on. From my reading on this board I now realise that this was pointless; they'd have written me off as a lying member of Babylon the Great. After all, doesn't the FDS assure them that Christendom constantly preaches about the Immortality of the Soul and about devils stoking the fires of Hell with the souls of the wicked dead??

jschwehm

There was a book about the dubs entitled "Apostles of Denial". The point of the book is that the way the JWs define their doctrines is to deny the doctrines that mainstream Christianity has taught for the last 2000 years. In essence, the doctrines of the JWs are just the negative of most things that the mainstream Christian churches teach.

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a Catholic priest. When I mentioned that I used to be a JW, he commented on their dedication to their beliefs but then said that the JWs are a very angry religion.

Jeff S.

ellderwho

I think its interesting to note that Russell did away with imortality of the soul early on, which in hand does away with eternal punishment.This then leads to deminishing Jesus' role as savior as well as Christs deity. And ultimatly putting God in a box.

"Immortal Soul" - A Watchtower Doctrine!

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