So I went to see my dad give a talk

by StephaneLaliberte 14 Replies latest jw experiences

  • StephaneLaliberte

    I have to say that it was quite a strange feeling. For many years that I was in, I had to do a lot of pretending with various teachings I personally didn’t believe in. Still, I believed in some foundation and went for that. Hence, it was only natural that I rekindled with the fake me yesterday. I felt like an actor in a movie, playing a role. The role of the faithful JW who believed everything and tagged along and I played the part well. I was searching ever verse in the new “silver sword” bible, sang loud and well (at least the first one) and said a clear AMEN at the prayer. Heck, if I had stayed for the watchtower, I easily could have raised my hand to make a comment everyone would have appreciated.

    Felt like some type of twisted game. The only time I can remember being this fake and shallow was, well, the last time I was at the Kingdom hall!

    What was a bit stranger yesterday is the fact that I now don’t even believe in the concept of a personal loving God. Hence, hearing my Dad talk about getting to know Jehovah was even more infuriating inside as I realized that the several arguments were shallow and baseless. Also, these were somewhat “machine gun” arguments. Several arguments delivered so quickly that you don’t really have time to evaluate. At the end of the talk, you’re supposed to think: Well, there were several reasons, in fact, so many that I can’t remember them all!

    For instance, he was saying that you can be friends with Jehovah and get to know him like Abraham did. Alright, so, a friend of mine comes to my house and tells me to sacrifice my own son. Does that sound like a real loving friend? God is love! Aside from the stuff he did during Jesus’ ministry of three years, sounds like gods interaction with humans was by and large about killing people or making them sick. The bible says in a few places that God is slow to anger. Does that sound like a God that would send 2 bear to kill 42 children? God wants woman to be submitted to their husband as the husband is submitted to the lord. That was written in a letter by a single man <let that sink in>.

    I was so annoyed by all this, I told my mother in law yesterday that the next time I’ll go there will be for a funeral. Still, I think I will take my boys in one day to show them what his parents believed and what some of his family still believes. I will also take them to church and see if I could not go see other religions out there. I believe it would be useful for their upbringing in understanding out to deal with religious people. I will certainly get there when they are teenagers. Right now, they are still a bit too young.

    Aside from that, members of the congregation were polite, and the congregation had many in attendance. And yet, it was a gorgeous day outside.

    Another tiny bit worth mentioning, a sister that saw me grow up in that congregation was there and told me she very much enjoyed my talks when I was there and that I was so spiritual back then without actually telling me to come back. I then asked her about her son that was about my age. She told me he was still disfellowshipped. I asked her if we was still at the same job over the last 5 years. She told me he had been there for the last 10 years. I answered: Wow. Very happy for him. He could have turned much worse than this considering some of his social circle when he was younger and look at this: A serious man able to hold the same job for ten years. Quit a man! She than looked at me with a look similar to a Stopford wife who just had a glitch, confused by her happiness about someone saying something nice about her son and the fact that he is nonetheless disfellowshipped.

  • Perry
    For instance, he was saying that you can be friends with Jehovah and get to know him like Abraham did.

    I have run into this argument before. The reason the Watchtower teaches people to use this line (it is common) is because the WT tries to make the argument that we can be friends with God OUTSIDE of the New Covenant.

    Abraham was friends with God for one reason only...because he believed him, period. Had Abraham lived in the New Testament period, he would have believed God the same as he did before and accepted Christ as his Mediator. Abraham would not go along with a teaching opposite of what God has said: "There is one Mediator between God and men, a man Christ Jesus".

    They are trying to create an extra-biblical position that claims you can be God's Friend even though Jesus isn't your Mediator from judgment, which occurs after you die. (Hebrews 9:27)

    So the Watchtower reasoning is actually an impossibility: Essentially claiming that; If you disbelieve God and believe us instead, you can be God's friend like Abraham was because he believed God.

    Here's some additional information on the account of the bears as well.

  • StephaneLaliberte

    Perry: I read the comments in the link provided. Very interesting. strange that the bible didn't bother giving all the information that link provides. According to the link, they could have been a bunch of YHWH hating, Baal worshipers, acting as violant hoodlums that could have caused greater violence that was instead inflicted onto them. Power of deduction? And now I am curious as to why it was wise or just of God to order the massacre of every in Canaan.

    By the way: to your credit, you are providing more information and for that, sir, Respect!

  • stuckinarut2

    Well done for enduring such an experience with strength and dignity!

    Its almost like you were able to apply the Convention title and were "courageous" hehe.

    I think it was nice that you went for your father's sake. After all, that is what families should do - support one another's big events in life. So I wonder would he now attend some event of accomplishment in YOUR life? perhaps some work awards night, or community awards night?? Would he afford you the same support to something you hold dear?

  • Perry
    And now I am curious as to why it was wise or just of God to order the massacre of every in Canaan.

    The link above may provide more food for thought.

    I have my own short-answer sound bite, but the above link is a pretty thorough treatment of the subject.

  • jookbeard

    the concept of being a "friend of jeehovah just like Abraham did" is utterly stupid and an insult to the intelligence, how would anyone want to be a friend with an angry,bloodthirsty,perverted,bad tempered spirit creature who has never accepted the fuck ups that she/he has caused throughout history and likes to play the blame game is beyond me, I'd drop that asshole like a hot brick

  • StephaneLaliberte

    Very interesting Perry, I'm bookmarking this. :)

  • Perry

    Most of the OT is basically cliff notes. But there are enough other sources to flesh out the larger picture.

  • Giordano

    Congrats Stephane,

    I know you didn't want to be's very difficult to sit through a hot steaming pile of bull shit. However maybe this investment of your time, your showing respect for your Dad will come back as respect for you.

    Who knows....... maybe a real honest one might break out. Who knows......... maybe your Dad will trust you with his doubts. Because you showed balance. He probably noticed you were there in support of him not necessarily in support of his beliefs. That can carry some weight.

    That you honored him. Like ex JW's honor their parents at a funeral.

    I have done that for my Aunt, my mother, my sister and my wife's mother when they passed. Just showing respect ........not embracing their pathetic religion....not making an issue of it. Showing up is 80 to 90% of making a statement.

    Though I did break down a bit with my mother-in-law's JW funeral talk. I got up well before it ended and walked out of the KH. I couln't take it anymore. When I walked past the door attendants they looked at me like 'is everything ok. Can we be of help?' I shook my head no, smiled at them and mimed going out to smoke a cigarette.

    There is only so much you can take in these situations.

  • Akid48

    You know I like how you said how they try and argue ''Machine gun arguments'' a really good way to say it.

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