List of main points from 2023 AGM

by ExBethelitenowPIMA 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ExBethelitenowPIMA
    ExBethelitenowPIMA

    1. Doctrinal changes how new light comes about. The GB raise questions then talk about it, unless it’s unanimous they wait, then years later talk again if it’s unanimous it then gets announced as new light.

    2. The GB are imperfect and sometimes make mistakes. They are not to apologise or even admit they were wrong. Rank and file are to just go along with new light no matter how ridiculous it was to go along with the old light for such a long time.

    3. It used to be that if you were disfellowshipped and died before Armageddon you would be resurrected unless you were really really bad. There will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteousness.

    but what if you didn’t die just before the end? This wouldn’t make sense and be unfair.

    now they are saying pretty much everyone will make it through and then during the 1000 year reign everyone can decide if they want to live in paradise.

    4. No more reporting ministry only that you participated in some form. This will mean pioneers will be left on their own a lot as they still have to.

  • Gorb
    Gorb

    Point 1, made clear how GB comes to doctrinal changes.

    What I noticed was the lack of urgency. If not now, then in years.

    Gorby

  • no-zombie
    no-zombie

    ExBethelitrnowPIMA ... can you explain your point below, a bit more?

    "... now they are saying pretty much everyone will make it through and then during the 1000 year reign everyone can decide if they want to live in paradise ..."

    thanks

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Point 1...What I noticed is these nitwit Governing Body members are still stuck on Proverbs 4:18 (New Light?) as their go-to scripture for their trickery, deception and excuse for getting things wrong!

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I have not seen the video. The following is extracts from the article on the AvoidJW site , which reads like someone’s detailed notes . Therefore I cannot vouch 100% for it’s accuracy but it seems o k and I accord with other reports.

    D Splane

    “What do we see from these examples? They were wicked, they did bad things, they repented, they started doing what was right and then Jehovah had given them a clean slate.” John 5:22 “ The father Judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the son.” Jesus has been the authority to judge. The authority Jesus has been given is also the resurrection and the life. Jehovah knows everything of those that had died, but since Jesus is doing the resurrecting- he also knows about the dead and the living. “ We shouldn’t be dogmatic about who will and who won’t be resurrected, but we trust Jesus Christ and Jehovah that they will do what is right.” He then brings up the Tribulation and mentions how the crowd’s wheels must be turning. Before he goes into the Great Tribulation he checks his watch and leaves the stage for Geoffrey Jackson to conclude “


    G Jackson

    1 All those who die during the great tribulation, will they go into eternal death and not be resurrected? Well we can say their fake Gods wont be, everlasting cutting off. We simply don’t know.

    1. Will all those living during the great Tribulation, have a full opportunity to decide either for the Kingdom or against? We don’t know. We aren’t the Judges, its above our pay grade” -He coyly shrugs it off and dives into statistics about how many people die and are born each day. “-Is it reasonable for us to say that Jehovah and Jesus immediately label those of goats even though they have not had a full opportunity to respond? Is it possible those may be resurrected as righteous persons? An upcoming watchtower will give us all the details on this. What do we need to keep doing? We need to keep preaching the message to as many people as possible. Leave the judging to Jehovah and Jesus they will always do the right thing, the merciful now that we can be sure of that!””
  • markweatherill
    markweatherill

    Both the change to reporting time, and the softening of the teaching about resurrection, would have been sticking points if Tony Morris was still around, I think.

    So the explanation of how the governing body operates was quite timely, although they missed out the part about what happens if a vote is almost unanimous but there's this one board member who keeps standing in the way of progress...

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    Governing Body: God speaks through us.

    Also Governing Body: We simply don't know.

  • nowwhat?
    nowwhat?

    In the October gb update. They said get ready to begin a more hard hitting message. Even had a video about it. Then a week later. They talk about a new kinder, gentler Jehovah and Jesus that will give people an opportunity to repent during the GT. And then the no reporting hours now. So what is it?

  • Journeyman
    Journeyman
    They said get ready to begin a more hard hitting message. Even had a video about it. Then a week later. They talk about a new kinder, gentler Jehovah and Jesus that will give people an opportunity to repent during the GT. And then the no reporting hours now. So what is it?

    Actually, the two are not incompatible.

    Remember the account of Jonah. God gave him the commission to give a judgment message to the Ninevites. He went (eventually) and did that, and to his surprise they listened and repented. He was annoyed about that, but God accepted their repentance.

    So the preaching message might "toughen up" into a judgment message, but that does not mean that God is not open to "pardoning the error" of those who listen.

    With the "no reporting" change - if the org had been following the Christian model properly from the start, that should always have been the case:
    1) The Christian ministry is supposed to be about people and their experiences not hours and numbers
    2) It's also supposed to be about being motivated "from the heart" to preach, not prodded by numbers for productivity, or competition for position
    3) it sorts out who is doing it out of genuine belief and interest - anyone not really motivated or who doesn't believe it will stop or ease off now, and that's for the best all round.

    As for "leave the judgment to Jehovah and Jesus" message, that's also how it should have been if the org had really been following Christian principles from the start (rather than throwing shade at anyone who is not already a baptised Witness, which has been common behaviour in many congregations).


    The bit of this meeting programme that intrigues me more is what BluesBrother highlighted.

    In my opinion, the GB are entirely right (albeit very late) to say explicitly that only Jehovah God and Jesus can determine who is resurrected. [Assuming the viewpoint that one believes all this in the first place, as the GB supposedly do.]

    But it opens a huge can of worms on a similar, but perhaps even more important point that challenges the GB's very own self-proclaimed status. To extend BluesBrother's quote from Splane:

    "We shouldn’t be dogmatic about who will and who won’t be resurrected" ... to heaven
    I have always thought it arrogant to assume that individuals who say they are anointed are definitely in heaven once they've died. For decades, the org has said things like "So-and-So .... has received their heavenly reward"

    If the GB are now openly acknowledging that only Jehovah and Jesus determine who will be resurrected to earth, surely the same is true regarding who is resurrected to a heavenly place [given that JW teaching is that not all go to heaven, of course]?

    They have already recently spelled out clearly (in an attempt to explain the surge in partakers) that a person "believing sincerely" that they are anointed is not proof they are actually anointed (although that somewhat undermines Romans 8:16). Coupled with this "clarification", that openly calls into question the organisation's assumption that every member of the GB past and present - and various faithful 20th Century oldtimers - are guaranteed a place in heaven

    If it's "above their pay grade" to decide about the earthly resurrection, surely it's even moreso with the heavenly resurrection?
  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    This was a fun little comparison video...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTh4b1rzJig

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