Cofty--Can You Help This JW Lady?

by Atlantis 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Atlantis
    Cofty, this JW lady sent us a message with a question on a point she is trying to verify.

    Her question: (Isn't the Watchtower teaching a form of "Evolution" right now and my JW family just don't realize it?)

    Hold on Sandra, grampa (Atlantis), says that (Cofty) is pretty much an expert on evolution and can answer your question more accurately than we can.

    Sandra, see comments below for more info. (We note there are JW's in the home so we need to be brief.)

    Sandra's understanding is:

    One of the definitions of the word "Evolution" is:


    2. the gradual development of something, especially from a simple to a
    more complex form.


    Doesn't the Watchtower teach us that we are going to gradually
    develop from an imperfect body to a perfect one? Aren't we taught
    that we will take on a more complex physical and mental form once
    we are perfect?

    2016 Study Watchtower, January pg. 31, par. 11

    "11 The bonds of love that we enjoy with God and with fellow humans
    may be strong now, but they will be even stronger in the righteous new
    world. Think of the work that lies ahead! There will be resurrected
    ones to be welcomed back and to be educated in the ways of Jehovah.
    The earth will need to be transformed into a paradise. These are no
    small tasks, but how joyful it will be to work shoulder to shoulder
    and to grow to perfection under the Messianic Kingdom! Those in the
    human family will draw ever closer to one another and to their God,
    who will without fail “satisfy the desire of every living thing.”—Ps.

    2012 Watchtower, October 15th, pg. 31, par. 17

    "17 What a wonderful future awaits all worshippers of Jehovah who keep
    striving to let their Yes mean Yes! For the 144,000 anointed ones, it
    will mean immortal life in heaven, where they will share with Jesus in
    his Kingdom “and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”
    (Rev. 20:6) For countless millions more, it will mean benefiting from
    Christ’s Kingdom rule in an earthly paradise. There they will be
    helped to grow to physical and mental perfection."—Rev. 21:3-5.

    If a persons body and mind change gradually to a higher form than what existed previously,
    then this is evolution according to my understanding. Do I have the correct understanding? Is the Watchtower teaching a form of evolution?



  • WingCommander

    To everyone on here: I would NOT click on the enclosed link. I got a weird message in my inbox from this "Atlantis" stating they had secret Branch Tapes, and that I could email them for links for the downloads. I feel someone has been compromised.

    SIMON: Please look into this. Thx.

  • Atlantis

    Well I just clicked on the enclosed link, and got a dictionary definition of the word "evolution" so I don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about!

    And for your information, we have already sent those links to Simon! Yesterday!


  • _Morpheus

    I apologize to cofty in advance for fielding this, but this a pretty simple one...

    the short answer is no. The wt org’s teaching is, in effect, that we all are now ‘damaged goods’, so to speak. We are like a car with a mechanical problem. In humans we call that problem “sin”. In the new world humans dont evolve into anything more complex nor do they change into anything else, the machine (human bidy) is simply repaired and restored to proper function, in the same way a repaired car hasnt evolved into something else, its simply been restored to proper function.

    As always, i dont buy it, im just clarifying the teaching so it can be properly debunked.

  • Atlantis


    Thank you for your assistance!


  • Diogenesister

    Butting in I can say they do believe in a kind of insanely accelerated " micro" evolution for animal types, post flood for instance.

    They explain the lack of space in the Ark and the present insane variation of species by saying only basic "kinds" must have entered the Ark - the rest must have micro evolved from these!-

  • TD

    Sandra is correct, but her example is probably not the best illustration.

    The JW belief that the entire antediluvian world was vegetarian is an endorsement of evolution with open arms.

    How did the cat family become obligate carnivores? Who designed ecosystems that are dependent upon predation? Who designed the decomposition chain, which is dependent upon the the mechanical breakdown of dead bodies by scavengers? How did symbiotic relationships like the shark and cleaner fish or the sea anemone and clown fish arise when these are based upon predation? How did insect predators "learn" to mimic flowers? --The examples would fill a book.

    If these things can happen purely by natural forces, then evolution is perfectly plausible and God really isn't required.

  • Diogenesister

    WingCoI don't know what's going on at home to make you behave like this, but please check someone's posting history before you make accusations.

    Atlantis was doing this stuff when WiFibandit was in nappies 😊

  • Listener

    I've just been reading through the latest Watchtower- September 2018 and they have this as a footnote

    It is reasonable to conclude that some Armageddon survivors will be disabled. When on earth, Jesus cured people with “every sort of infirmity,” thus giving us a preview of what he will do, not for resurrected ones, but for Armageddon survivors. (Matt. 9:35) Resurrected ones will no doubt have whole, sound bodies.
    It seems that this is new light and rather than evolution being involved, there will be a miraculous healing of physical imperfections.

    If resurrected ones are going to have perfect bodies then they must also be perfect beings, both physically and mentally. But the footnote seems to only be discussing physical bodies. It makes me wonder what they think it is to be imperfect but since they simply come up with whatever they want or whoever's thoughts can convince the current Governing Body the only conclusion is that they can't make up their minds about anything, especially when they are simply speculating in the first place.

    The Watchtower 82 12/1 states

    Those who physically have died and will be resurrected on earth during the Millennium will still be imperfect humans. Also, those surviving the war of God will not be made perfect and sinless immediately. As they continue faithful to God during the Millennium those who will have survived on earth evidently will gradually progress toward perfection. Hence, as long as persons in both categories are not free of inherited sin, they will in a sense be “dead” (and could not yet be fully alive) in God’s sight.—Luke 9:60; Ephesians 2:1.
  • doubtfull1799

    To answer the OP: Its simply a matter of Evolution in a very general non-scientific definition/sense of things changing over time vss Biological Evolution, which is a very specific type of change. I think the society supports the former, not the latter.

    Also, a comment on the above 82 Watchtower: This is completely absurd and shows the true nature of the two-class system. Anointed and Other sheep ARE NOT equal in JW theology as they like to claim (as in both righteous but have different destinies). If the heavenly resurrection is to perfection, why not the earthly resurrection? Both have dies and paid for their sins, so why does God create a new imperfect body instead of a perfect one, like he does for spirit bodies? Why do the great crowd have to work towards perfection for a 1000 years while the anointed achieve perfection instantly!?

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