Elders appointed by Holy Spirit?

by LadyBug 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • LadyBug
    LadyBug

    Amazings Justice points brings me to this point. Elders truly believe that they are appointed by Gods Spirit. So when they appoint someone who is:

    1. Their buddy, or
    2. Who is wealthy (these 2 happen alot in the places I've been), or
    3. Who is hiding a wrong doing themselves

    How do they justify their appointment? Any of you who are ex elders, did you really believe you were appointed by holy spirit?

    I'm very interested in comments and what you really did believe.

    Anyone is free to comment not just exelders.

    BEW

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    I didn't believe I was appointed by holy spirit. I didn't want to be an elder, I didn't like most of the other elders, and I don't really know why I accepted. I thought I was doing just less than what was required. I had never given more than the "Instruction" talk and not even part of a public talk before making elder. I thought that was in part to the PO who disliked me for questioning his motives and procedures on more than one occasion.

    I think the beginning of the end for me started with being made an elder. I was shocked that the great org was run by dumb, bickering and corrupt elders and I had joined them. I resigned about 3 years later after a bitter disagreement about covering up of wrong doing.

    I didn't think the HS had anything to with my appointment and didn't see much evidence of it within the elder body.

    Thirdson

    'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    Being as I was never an Elder I can't imagine what they think!! the fact that you used 'Elder' and 'Holy Spirit' in the same sentance however Kracks me up AHHAHAHAHHAHAAH!!

    Ven

  • BoozeRunner
    BoozeRunner

    Elders appointed by Holy Spirit? THAT is one for the Sunday Funnies!!!! LoL
    Elders are appointed for the simple reason that the more people you have IN on the scam, the harder it is to get caught. Kinda like cops and bribes,(no disrespect intended for Law Enforcement Professionals)LoL. Elders LOVE the elite little clique they are in, and even those with misgivings are likely to stay for fear of embarrassment. Dont forget, their wives love the STATUS, whatever the hell that may be, LoL.

    TG for boards like this one that are freeing up info so that all can exercise freedom of thought, and choice.

    "Losing my mind was a liberating experience"
    Boozy

  • esther
    esther

    Spirit drinking maybe, direction of holy spirit no
    esther

  • jukief
    jukief

    To BugEyesWife:

    An interesting question you've raised. Problem is, a lot of elders believe that they're directly appointed by holy spirit, and a lot understand the Society's real teaching and don't believe it.

    The Society's real teaching is this: Because holy spirit inspired the Bible, and JWs go entirely by the Bible in appointing elders, it can be said that, in effect, holy spirit has appointed elders to their positions. This teaching, of course, is bogus beyond belief. It hinges on several assumptions, any one of which can unhinge the entire teaching.

    Assuming that "holy spirit" inspired the Bible, the logical problems with the WTS's position are many:

    Do JWs go entirely by the Bible in anything? Of course not. They impose their traditions on the Bible.

    If the Bible is actually inspired, and JWs don't impose their traditions on it, can a body of elders be said to go entirely by the Bible in recommending another elder? Of course not. Some elders, being uninspired, make mistakes in their recommendation.

    Despite the imperfections of local elders, the Society claims that elders are still "appointed by holy spirit" because the appointments are made "theocratically", i.e., local elders make a recommendation, then someone appointed by the Governing Body, God's specially appointed representative and spiritual authority over all mankind, approves the recommendation. The chain of assumptions leading to this bogus conclusion is obvious and is obviously bogus.

    Whenever problems occur, the Society is quick to point out that elders are not inspired, and that they don't directly speak for God. Elders can make mistakes. However, nowhere in publicly available Watchtower literature is it ever discussed where an elder goes bad and has to be removed. Thus, the JW rank & file gets the impression from JW Central that no problems ever occur, and that elders are indeed directly and specially and individually "appointed by holy spirit".

    Back around 1977 the local elder body of the congregation I attended made some really stupid blunders in connection with the actions of a rogue elder who had grossly overstepped his bounds and had tried to get a ministerial servant disfellowshipped for something that was not the congregation's business (this was later affirmed by a special committee directly appointed by the Society). The elders first decided to drop the matter, then after more pressure from the rogue elder decided to privately reprove the MS, then to DF him, then to drop the matter altogether, then to call in an outside committee to help decide. These Keystone Kops elders made me realize that the Society's apparent teaching was bullshit. So I questioned several elders about the business of being "appointed by holy spirit". They all parroted the Society's standard line, but were completely unable to explain to me how the idiotic things they had done could possibly be done under the aegis of the holy spirit. So one of them suggested that I write to the Society and ask them about it. In their usual cowardly fashion, they didn't want to commit anything to print, so they had our local Circuit Overseer, one Wesley Benner (a few years later Benner was appointed to DF Raymond Franz) explain the Society's real teaching to me. After about an hour's worth of discussion Benner admitted, in so many words, that the Society's apparent public teaching was bullshit, and that the reality was as I described above -- 'in effect' and all that. Then I said to Benner point blank, "You mean that it is not true that elders are directly appointed by holy spirit, but that the idea is only a manner of speaking?" He slowly hung his head, looked at the floor and answered, "Yes". At that point I knew that something was rotten in Brooklyn and that the Society was simply lying to people, but because of various things I had to grin and bear it.

    Some years later I discussed this business with another elder. The Society had recently published an article purporting to support the idea that "elders are appointed by holy spirit", and I attempted to point out that this was, as CO Benner admitted, merely a matter of speaking and not true in fact. He could not see the point, and just referred me back to the recent lying WT article. This article, by the way, reaffirmed the Society's tradition of lying to the JW rank & file by seeming to prove that "elders are directly appointed by holy spirit" but not actually doing so, and only implying sidewise that the this "appointment" is only in a manner of speaking. The elder refused to believe what Benner had explained to me. He fell hook, line and sinker for the Society's desired conclusion rather than understanding what, for legal reasons, they really said.

    At this point it's obvious that some elders fall for the Society's lies and some don't. Those who do are generally the hard-assed elders who toe the WTS line no matter what. Those who don't tend to ride herd on the braindead among them and tend to moderate the lunacy that would result from unrestrained application of the Society's apparent teaching.

    Getting back to your questions, it's apparent that the answers depend entirely on the personalities of the elders in question. What happens is more or less a crapshoot. However, experience shows that good, positive, effective actions can be taken that will force militant elders into inactivity. That's really the best method of dealing with them, INMSHO.

    AlanF

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    Alan,

    I read through this thread thinking, "Wow! Jukie's really gotten into this new discussion board!" I was rather disappointed to discover "AlanF" at the bottom of the post.

    What are you doing, parading around dressed up like Jukie? Kinky, kinky.

    Ginny

  • jukief
    jukief

    Sometimes we cross dress. :-)

    Actually I'm not quite sure what happened, now that you've pointed it out. It seems that the board sends Internet Explorer some information that gets recorded in terms of who is posting on the board and so forth. I've gotten onto several websites where Julie is the key, so I would think that somehow IE has gotten confused and thinks that she is me, and so the board automatically logs in whoever IE thinks is whoever as someone else. Oh well. I'll just log out completely and start from scratch.

    AlanF

  • LadyBug
    LadyBug

    Thirdson

    I think the beginning of the end for me started with being made an elder. I was shocked that the great org was run by dumb, bickering and corrupt elders and I had joined them. I resigned about 3 years later after a bitter disagreement about covering up of wrong doing.

    It's a pity that more don't think and act like you.

    Alan

    I enjoyed your comments. They reaffirm just how manipulative this org is

    Thus, the JW rank & file gets the impression from JW Central that no problems ever occur, and that elders are indeed directly and specially and individually "appointed by holy spirit".

    They may get the impression, but most do not believe "that no problems ever occur". I know when I was a witness for years I didn't believe they were appointed by spirit.

    And can I go so far as to say 'most'? congregations have so many problems with their elders that the "rank & file" know that all is not as it appears where the elders are concerned. The thinking ones have their doubts.

    However, experience shows that good, positive, effective actions can be taken that will force militant elders into inactivity.

    Unfortunately this can take years. What was it that my mum always says? "Wait on Jehovah, he'll fix it in his own time". Well they are all going to be waiting a hell of a long time.

    BEW

  • Jang
    Jang

    Sure BEW ..... we can see that a holy spirit guides them [8>]

    The holy spirit that guides them to choose their elders and guide their elders is the same holy spirit that helped them understand prophecy and all those ever changing teachings ....

    Definitely not the Holy Spirit of the Bible ......I doubt very much that God wold get it THAT wrong every time

    JanG
    CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
    Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit