666 or 616??

by metatron 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Narkissos

  Zen Nudist: Apparently I wrote too quickly. I cannot check the matter further now, but if I understand correctly the critical apparatus of Nestle-Aland 4th ed. all the uncials (such as Codices Sinaiticus and Alexandrinus) seem to have it in full spelling, with spelling variants (as well as the 616 variant in Codex Ephraemi rescriptus). However, papyrus P47 which is older (3rd century) seems to have it in numeral letters (kh-x-s), like in the much later byzantine tradition...

  If I find something more I'll let you know (unless someone else comes up with better information). Btw, could you give me the link to your on-line texts?
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  Leolaia

  Narkissos....as I mentioned earlier, the earliest witness is Irenaeus (c. A.D. 190) on the basis of both Papias (c. A.D. 130) and the manuscript evidence of his day. He writes in Adversus Haeresies 5.30.1:

  Now such being the state of the case, and since this number [i.e. already mentioned as 666] is found in all the good and old copies, and the very men who had seen John with their own eyes [i.e. Papias] testify to it, and reason teaches that the number of the name of the Beast, according to the reckoning of the Greeks, is 666 ... some, though I do not know how, have erred, following a particular reading, and have taken liberties with the middle number of the name, subtracting the value of fifty and choosing to have only one ten instead of six.

  When this is added to the extant manuscript evidence, the conclusion is pretty clear that 666 was the original number.
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  Narkissos

  Leolaia: my post to Zen Nudist was only on the question of spelling (i.e., full spelling or numeral letters) in the manuscripts and other witnesses.
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  Yerusalyim

  Blondie
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  Yerusalyim

  Blondie,

  Thanks for that great post. Good info. I still think this refers, Directly to Nero...and to Domition, and to a lesser extent...all Roman Emperors.
• 

  dh

  slightly off topic but i thought you might find this interesting.
• 

  Amazing

  An erroneous statement made by end-time groups like the JWs, is that they refer to this number as: 6-6-6 ... or orally state it as: Six - Six - Six ... then, the JWs go on to say it is the imperfect human number "6" stated three times for emphasis ... humans were also created on the 6th day. Yet, the Greek translates literally, Six Hundred Sixty Six. A stand alone single number, and not a repetitious statement of the number 6..

  The Seventh-Day Adventists and others discovered that the numbers on the Pope's crown add up to 666. Some believe that image of the beast is really religion and not the UN because of this numerological interpretation.

  Forewarning? Our sound box at one Kingdom Hall was Model No. 666 ... and at another Kingdom Hall, our P.O.'s address was PO Box 666. Go figure ... it is all silly ancient superstitous nonsense ... like the Druids, etc.

  An atheist friend of mine stated that he believes that John, the author of Revelation, was likely smoking some good dope when he has all those visions.
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  Yerusalyim

  Amazing,

  Vicarius Filii Dei, (Vicar of the Son of God) which could add up to 666 in Latin does NOT appear on the papal crown. Further...the last pope to use the papal crown was Paul VI.

  Vicarius Filii Dei isn't even one of the official titles of the pope. This is one of the favorite stories of the SDA who are every bit as anti-Catholic as the JW's. Since it's been more than 20 years since a pope has been seen in a crown, some SDA now say that Vicarius Filii Dei appears on the Pope's mitre...don't ya think someone would notice?

  Just an FYI type post.
• 

  czarofmischief

  Yeru - ever read Malachi Martin?

  CZAR
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  Yerusalyim

  Czar,

  You would be refering to the laicized Jesuit priest who wrote several fiction and a few "non-fiction" books. The guy who left the priesthood because he oppossed the changes of Vatican II and attributed such changes to the idea that Satan was taking over the Catholic Church...yep...I've heard of him...he was a kook. He believes in Werewolves, etc...did a jog on Art Bell's Coast to Coast...the guy is (was) a nut.