baptisim questions

by Globetrotter 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

eby

*** w86 4/1 30-1 Questions From Readers *** Questions From Readers
õ Why have Jehovah?s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?
???.
Approved association with Jehovah?s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah?s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?
That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah?s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a ?faithful and discreet slave? upon earth today ?entrusted with all of Jesus? earthly interests,? which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah?s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ?s foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15?12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ?s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present ?great crowd? of Jesus? ?other sheep.??John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4.
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Following such Scriptural patterns, if a Christian (who claims belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus) unrepentantly promotes false teachings, it may be necessary for him to be expelled from the congregation. (See Titus 3:10, 11.) Of course, if a person just has doubts or is uninformed on a point, qualified ministers will lovingly assist him. This accords with the counsel: ?Continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire.? (Jude 22, 23) Hence, the true Christian congregation cannot rightly be accused of being harshly dogmatic, but it does highly value and work toward the unity encouraged in God?s Word.
eby
Elsewhere

*** w93 8/1 p. 16 Let No One Spoil Your Useful Habits ***
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How can we apply Paul?s warning about associations? He did not mean that we should decline to help someone in the congregation who was finding it hard to understand a Bible verse or teaching. Indeed, Jude 22, 23 urges us to give merciful help to sincere ones with such doubts. (James 5:19, 20) Paul?s fatherly counsel, however, should certainly come into play if someone keeps taking exception to what we know to be Bible truth or keeps making comments of a skeptical or negative nature. We should be on guard against association with that type of person. Of course, if someone became definitely apostate, the spiritual shepherds would have to act to protect the flock.?2 Timothy 2:16-18; Titus 3:10, 11.
*** w87 2/1 p. 19 Doing Our Utmost to Declare the Good News ***
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First of all, there is the matter of being obedient and ready to respond to encouragement. When direction and encouragement come from the proper source, it is only right that we should respond readily. Thus, rather than viewing these qualities as mere national traits, we keep in mind Jesus? words: "My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." (John 10:27) We also remember that one feature of "the wisdom from above" is being "ready to obey." (James 3:17) These are qualities that all Christians are encouraged to put on. Due to background and upbringing, some may be more given to independent thinking and self-will than others. Perhaps this is an area where we need to discipline ourselves and ?make our mind over? so that we can perceive more clearly what the "will of God" is.?Romans 12:2.
*** w89 9/15 p. 23 Be Obedient to Those Taking the Lead ***
a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God?s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us
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w83 1/15 p. 27 Armed for the Fight Against Wicked Spirits ***
Such thinking is an evidence of pride. And the Bible says: "Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling." (Proverbs 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: "Where did we learn Bible truth in the first place? Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God?s organization?" No, we cannot!?Compare Acts 15:2, 28, 29; 16:4, 5.
*** w87 11/1 pp. 19-20 Are You Remaining Clean in Every Respect? ***
Apostates often appeal to the ego, claiming that we have been deprived of our freedoms, including the freedom to interpret the Bible for ourselves. (Compare Genesis 3:1-5.) In reality, these would-be defilers offer nothing more than a return to the nauseating teachings of "Babylon the Great." (Revelation 17:5; 2 Peter 2:19-22) Others appeal to the flesh, urging former associates to "take it easy" because the humble work of witnessing from house to house is "unnecessary" or "unscriptural." (Compare Matthew 16:22, 23.) True, such smooth talkers may look outwardly clean in a physical and moral way. But inside they are spiritually unclean, having given in to prideful, independent thinking. They have forgotten all that they learned about Jehovah, his holy name and attributes. They no longer acknowledge that all they learned about Bible truth?the glorious hope of the Kingdom and a paradise earth and the overturning of false doctrines, such as the Trinity, the immortal human soul, eternal torment, and purgatory?yes, all of this came to them through "the faithful and discreet slave."?Matthew 24:45-47.
*** w87 11/1 p. 20 Are You Remaining Clean in Every Respect? ***
False religious propaganda from any source should be avoided like poison! Really, since our Lord has used "the faithful and discreet slave" to convey to us "sayings of everlasting life," why should we ever want to look anywhere else??John 6:68.
*** w83 1/15 p. 22 Exposing the Devil?s Subtle Designs ***
How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God?s visible organization
Globetrotter

Thank you all. Blondie, your link to the PDF was perfect..
The questions from the Accomplish Ministry book are quite interesting?
To Point:
In the Kingdom of God section, question 6 asks How do we know we are in the endtimes,etc.. In the answer, they apparently still use the Matt 22:32-34 generation stuff as support. I thought they abandon that.
In the Christian Law section, question 2 asks whether Christians are under Mosaic law, etc. Col 2:16, 17 are quoted saying ?Let no man judge you in the eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the NEW MOON(!) or of a Sabbath?? etc.
Shouldn?t this negate their stance on blood, celebrations of birthdays, Christmas and the like??? Weird to me.
Having just scanned the questions, I have to say that I am mildly disappointed in that I did not find what I expected. While their choice of questions in some cases is interesting, every answer ?hint? was a quote from scripture.
What I was specifically hoping to find was something on the order of the questions I encountered when reading CoC? questions that Ray Franz RF had to answer regarding the ORGANIZATION, not so much the JW version of the bible story. I?m looking specifically for the watchtower references to the 1914 return, etc?. the stuff that must be believed.
Elsewhere..the quotes you have come up with are brilliant, proving that independent thought is not allowed, which implies that you must believe the "food at the proper time" excrement that is then handed out. I was just hoping more organizational doctrine was included in the baptism questions.
BTW, I have seen on the net that the JWs have baptized ?in the name of the father and of the son and of Jehovah?s spirit led organization.? Can anyone here substantiate that claim? Do they still do that?
Thank you all for the kind welcome and help,
Misha
Vivamus

In the Kingdom of God section, question 6 asks How do we know we are in the endtimes,etc.. In the answer, they apparently still use the Matt 22:32-34 generation stuff as support. I thought they abandon that.

No, they didn't abandon it, just changed the meaning of it... This is the last generation ... meaning, the generation of annointed ones will still have a remainder on earth, when the great tribulation comes.
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Blue bubblegum Girl *correct me if I am wrong...*
Globetrotter

BBGG,
Dank U. They seem to have changed the meaning several times. My understanding is that the original text referred to the time in which the sentence was spoken. The end was to have occured in the 1st century.
Vivamus

True. The JW explain in it two ways. The first meaning was when it was written, and it did happen then, with the fall of Jerusalem in 76 (???) not so sure about the date anymore )
Vivamus

True. The JW explain in it two ways. The first meaning was when it was written, and it did happen then, with the fall of Jerusalem in 76 (???) not so sure about the date anymore )
Vivamus

Graag gedaan
True. The JW explain in it two ways. The first meaning was when it was written, and it did happen then, with the fall of Jerusalem in 76 (???) not so sure about the date anymore )
The second meaning is what I wrote above. And they give the first coming true of the scripture, as a 'proof' that it will happen again.....
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Blue Bubblegum Girl
Earnest

Approved association with Jehovah?s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah?s Witnesses. - eby, 01-Jan-04 17:54 GMT

Mouthy was disfellowshipped because she rejected the teaching that "1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens", as per the QFR you quoted. That is one of the reasons I clarified that :
If you are not convinced of the 1914 return of Jesus then you do not have to believe it. However, what is not allowed is that you preach a different interpretation to that commonly held by Jehovah's Witnesses. - Earnest, 01-Jan-04 14:43 GMT

Note that after listing scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses, the QFR says :
...if a Christian (who claims belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus) unrepentantly promotes false teachings, it may be necessary for him to be expelled from the congregation. (See Titus 3:10, 11.)
If you promote a particular interpretation then that goes beyond simply believing it. I certainly do not believe that "1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens" for a number of reasons, all of which I have discussed with several elders. And which I am quite happy to discuss with anyone should the subject arise. But I do not raise the subject myself and do not speak publicly (in talks or on the field ministry) on the subject.
Earnest
A Paduan

The idea of "have to believe" is totally wierd - try to believe?? - people believe somthing or else they disbelieve or have no established opinion - to make oneself believe is just that - make believe - ie. lie to oneself
Either you identify with it or not - let your yes be yes and your no be no

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