The image below depicts the "manger scene". If you look close, and use a little imagination, you can make out the "three wise men" there on the left, and Joseph and Mary on the right. Of course the brightest, pulsating "star" above them all is the "star of Bethlehem". Now the question is: Can you identify what it is about this image that isn't in keeping with the Biblical account regarding the birth of Jesus?
Find the error (quiz)
by Schizm 20 Replies latest jw friends
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Lady Lee
In Matt it says that the wise men didn't even begin looking for the child until after his birth. It is unlikely they made their long trip and went to talk to Herod all in one night..
Mark doesn't even talk about the birth
Luke talks about the angels appearing to shepherds who then did go see the child.
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got my forty homey?
The picture depicts a house, not a manger, where's the sheep and milky licker cats!
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Schizm
Lady Lee,
Thank you. You supplied the correct answer.
I find it interesting that the shepherds learned of Jesus' birth by means of an angelic announcement, whereas the "Magi" learned of it by means of the "star" that appeared to them. What do you make of this? Care to speculate?
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Sunnygal41
Yeah, I would! Hopefully you are asking what the "star" might have been....did I understand the question? Remember these were most likely Zoroastrian Magi, who were astrologers and astronomers. So, they were some of the most well versed in reading/watching the stars. Many times, in different things I've read, the appearance of new stars or comets were thought to presage a new King or the death of one. For more explanations rather than me trying to explain it, check out this link...........bottom line, the star was a "literal" and "figurative" star with huge implications for these "wise men".
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/1999/12/24/fpage_0.htm
Terri
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Schizm
Terri,
Hopefully you are asking what the "star" might have been....did I understand the question?
No, what I was really getting at is the fact that two different means was used for announcing that Jesus had been born (the shepherds learned of the birth one way and the Magi learned of it by a different means). Of course some people believe that it was God who caused the "star". But if such were true then the question arises: Why would God make use of angels in the one case, but then make use of a "star" in the other case? Care to address that question?
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pseudoxristos
Why would God make use of angels in the one case, but then make use of a "star" in the other case?
Perhaps the writer of the book of Matthew was so eager to show Jesus as the promised Messiah, that he not only distorted the Hebrew Scriptures to find prophetic fulfillment, but he also resorted to historical inaccuracies to achieve his purpose.The mythical nature of the Wise men narrative is so obvious that it is hardly worth serious consideration. Never less I will point out some of the problems.
First of all, can we really trust the writer of Matthew?
He begins by screwing up the genealogy of Jesus. Here is what the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia has to say:
1. Peculiarities of Matthew's Genealogy:
(1) The construction and incorporation of Joseph's genealogical tree is, in the light of all the facts, the primary consideration.
(2) The artificial division into three groups of fourteen generations each. The apparent defect in this arrangement as it actually stands (the third group lacks one member) is probably traceable to a defect of the Septuagint version of 1Ch 3:11, which is reproduced in the Greek gospel (see Zahn, Introduction to the New Testament, English translation, 564, note 4). This arrangement into groups is the more striking because it makes 14 generations from the captivity to Joseph, where Luke makes 20 or 21, and because the first group of 14 is formed by the omission of three names. It is perfectly clear, therefore, that this artificial grouping is essential to the purpose of the evangelist.
(3) The insertion of the names of brothers, thus following the historical lists and broadening the genealogy by including collateral lines.
(4) The insertion of the names of women -- a practice not only foreign but abhorrent to ordinary usage. This peculiarity is the more marked when we notice that these names introduce what would be considered serious blots in the family history of the Davidic house (see Mt 1:5, 7).
(5) The principle upon which the division into periods is constructed: (a) from Abraham to David, (b) from David to the Captivity, (c) from the Captivity to Jesus. Attention has repeatedly been called to the fact that this gives a definite historical movement to the genealogy. It involves the origin, the rise to power, the decay and downfall of the house of David (see Allen, ICC, "Matthew," 2; compare Zahn, N T, English translation, I, 535).
Next he proceeds to provide six seriously messed up prophetic fulfillments in quick succession.
22 All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
23 "Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall name him Emmanuel,"
which means, "God is with us."
Matt 1:22-23 (NRSV)5 They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it has been written by the prophet:
6 'And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who is to shepherd my people Israel.'"
Matt 2:5-6 (NRSV)14 Then Joseph got up, took the child and his mother by night, and went to Egypt, 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet, "Out of Egypt I have called my son."
Matt 2:14-15 (NRSV)17 Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah:
18 "A voice was heard in Ramah,
wailing and loud lamentation,
Rachel weeping for her children;
she refused to be consoled, because they are no more."
Matt 2:17-18 (NRSV)23 There he made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, "He will be called a Nazorean."
Matt 2:23 (NRSV)3 This is the one of whom the prophet Isaiah spoke when he said,
"The voice of one crying out in the wilderness:
'Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight.'"
Matt 3:3 (NRSV)
Most of these are either taken completely out of context, or they rely upon a faulty translation found in the Septuagint ("virgin" instead of "maiden", or Isa 40:3 3 A voice cries out: "In the wilderness prepare the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3 (NRSV))As far as the Wise Men narrative is concerned, it is ridiculous. The idea the Magi followed a star to find the child Jesus seems extremely farfetched. If the Magi were indeed astrologers, they would have been very familiar with the movement of the stars. Just as the Sun moves from East to the West during the day, the stars move in an East to West direction through out the night. Astrologers would certainly know that a star could not lead them to a particular earthly location. Perhaps they had interpreted a conjunction of the Planets as a sign relating to the birth of the King of Israel. This would explain their journey to Jerusalem, but it does not explain the re-appearance of the star and it leading them not only to Bethlehem, but the exact house where Jesus was staying.
It is clear that Zoroastrianism had influenced Jewish thought during and after the exile.
1. Influence on Occident:
Zoroastrianism was an active, missionary religion that has exerted a profound influence on the world's thought, all the more because in the West (at any rate) Ahura Mazda was not at all a jealous god, and Mazdeism was always quite ready to enter into syncretism with other systems. But this syncretistic tendency makes the task of the historian very delicate. None of the three great streams that swept from Persia over the West -- Mithraism, Gnosticism, and Manicheism -- contained much more than a Mazdean nucleus, and the extrication of Mazdean from other (especially older Magian and Babylonian) elements is frequently impossible. Yet the motive force came from Zoroaster, and long before the Christian era "Magi" were everywhere (as early as 139 BC they were expelled from Rome; compare RAB-MAG; BRANCH AND BOUGH). Often, doubtless, charlatans, they none the less brought teachings that effected a far-reaching modification of popular views and produced an influence on so basic a writer as Plato himself.
2. Popular Judaism:
Within the period 538-332 BC (that Cyrus was a Zoroastrian seems now established) Israel was under the rule of Mazdeans, and Mazdean influence on at least the popular conceptions was inevitable. It appears clearly in such works as Tobit (Expository Times, XI, 257ff), and Hystaspis (GJV, edition 4, III, 592-95), in many Talmudic passages (ZDMG, XXI, 552-91), certain customs of the Essenes, various anti-demoniac charms (see EXORCISM;SORCERY), and, perhaps, in the feast of Purim. And the stress laid on the prophetic ability of the Magi in Mt 2:1-12 is certainly not without significance. But the important question is the existence or extent of Mazdean influence on the formal Jewish religion.
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
It is also believed that Three Kings visited Sirius at his birth.Many scholars have seen the key to the Nativity story in astronomical allegory. Take, for instance, those three kneeling figures who were known to the Egyptians ages before they were supposed to have followed a star to Bethlehem. We are told that wise men or magi came from the east, in search of a king whose star they had seen in the east, and Roman Catholic legend says that these wise men were three kings. Now if, on a clear evening in midwinter, we look eastward, we see the most striking of all constellations mounting the sky. The three stars so conspicuous in Orion's belt point to the east from whence they came, as if announcing a marvel. And the marvel comes; Sirius, the most brilliant of all the host of heaven, rises in the east in line with those three stars, known of old as the Three Kings, a name they still bear in some parts of Europe. To the Egyptians, Sirius was the most important star of all, for they regulated their calendars by its heliacal rising. At one period in Egypt, Sirius reached its highest point at midnight on December 24, the moment of the solar rebirth, and accordingly the star was known as the Herald of the Sun. Thus it was true, astronomically speaking, that the Three Kings had "seen his star in the east," the Herald proclaiming the advent of the real King of Kings.
yeudo
"Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false, and the rulers see as useful."
-Roman philosopher Seneca- -
Sunnygal41
Schizm.............hmmm, well, the shepherds were all sitting out in their fields............and being Jewish? they would accept angels as messengers...........the three wise men/Magi from Persia had probably known of Jesus' impending birth for some time. If you checked the website, the star not only appeared literally, but, since these men were astronomers and astrologers, then they also would have been doing a chart of the star placements at that point and noticed the configuration of the Star of David that came up!
Terri, speculating away.....................
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Sara Annie
I find it interesting that the shepherds learned of Jesus' birth by means of an angelic announcement, whereas the "Magi" learned of it by means of the "star" that appeared to them. What do you make of this? Care to speculate?
I always find it fascinating that people try to speculate as to the motivation behind recorded incidents where God is concerned. This is GOD we're talking about, people. If he'd wanted to use 50 different means of declaration, he could have done so. If he wanted to send an angel personally to each and every individual simultaneously, he would have. Heck, if he wanted to declare the birth of his son by use of a singing telegram featuring a dancing banana descending from the sky, he could have.
I'm just saying.
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Sunnygal41
Heck, if he wanted to declare the birth of his son by use of a singing telegram featuring a dancing banana descending from the sky, he could have.
Sara Annie!! ROFLMAO!!!!! Yeah, he could have..........but, this is such fun..........we are curious creatures we humans. Don't be an old wet blanket!
Terri