Amor mortis

by Narkissos 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    One thing I am now pretty convinced of about religion or mystics is that it is often related to what Freud called Todestrieb (death drive, or drive to death?): it is apparent in Christianity from Paul's "theology of the cross", which implies "dying to one's desire" (an exemplary expression of it could be Galatians 5:24, "those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires"). But it certainly has correspondence elsewhere (such as the "non-being" goal in Taoism or Buddhism).

    In the JWs' doctrine, despite all claims to the contrary, death is omnipresent from the penalty of sin in Eden down to Armaggedon (as "tipyfied" by the Flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.), with the necessary "ransom sacrifice" of Jesus at the midst of the picture. Practically, it implies every kind of "sacrifice": what God expects from you is exactly what you don't feel like. The strange thing is that this call to sacrifice is just what appeals to the religious mind.

    When you were a JW, did you feel attracted to this kind of "sacrifice", where the most unpleasant thing (such as going from door to door, becoming a pioneer or a Bethel member) just appeared to you what God wanted you to do, especially if you didn't "desire" it? If so, how do you cope now with this kind of feeling? Has it disappeared altogether, does it express itself in other ways (as "sacrifices" to another cause), or do you repress it to lead a "normal" life?

  • Siddhashunyata
    Siddhashunyata

    Please amplify the distinction between the "religious mind" and other minds?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Siddhashunyata: I think many, perhaps most people are not sensitive to this "amor mortis". They can be trapped into religions because of family tradition and the like, but don't need it to live, and in fact would be doing better without it. They just want to enjoy life and don't feel any problem about it. What I call "religious minds" is those that need the kind of self-denial I was writing about. Thinking over the past, I think this played a great part in MY religious story, but I don't think it's universal.

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    I definitely was raised with that "sacrificial" mindset. I think it makes sense that sacrificial religion would appeal to anyone with a guilt-based mindset, since sacrifice is a form of atonement.

    I think that as I came to recognize and shy away from the guilt-based mentality I had been brought up with (everything is a sin, you must try to be perfect even though you never will be, etc.), I naturally also moved away from sacrifice.

    On a couple of occasions when the sacrifice mentality re-asserted itself after that, I made very stupid decisions.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Euphemism: You wrote "On a couple of occasions when the sacrifice mentality re-asserted itself after that, I made very stupid decisions." So did I.

    At midway, so to say (that is, about 10 years ago now), I remember I found a new reading of Genesis 22 very helpful, when I noticed the (accidental?) shift of names in the narrative: Elohim asks for the sacrifice, Yhwh stops it. Perhaps not of great exegetical value, but it helped me then to understand there was some kind of "pervert God" I had to turn my back on.

  • Siddhashunyata
    Siddhashunyata

    Yes, I understand. From childhood on, the influences produce a reflex in the mind and without sacrifice there is anxiety. This helps explain why Jehovah's Witnesses were able to steal so many converts from guilt centered religions especially Catholicism. Not only did JW's reinforce guilt but they provided a long list of sacrificial antidotes. Buddhism (excluding all the sectarian leveraging that goes on) has, in my opinion, a more organic concern with death . That is, death is part of life and ,by dispelling ignorance within one's self, it can be understood. Works of sacrifice are useful only so far as they dispell ignorance. Once ignorance is dispelled , compassion motivates all works. It is my opinion that this teaching is the teaching of Jesus Christ and that it stands in conflict with the Judaic-Messianic teaching that has been recorded along side it in the Bible.

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Narkissos

    Having been raised in the western culture and as an American fundamentalist it was a surprise to learn that the rest of the world looks at things differently.

    Although Calvinist started in Europe they modern people of Europe are nearly free of fundamentalism compared to the United States.

    Another revelation was with regard to Jesus and Christianity. I wondered why did his message appeal so much to the Western World. About all I have settled is that Jesus did not have much impact on the eastern cultures because THEY DID NOT NEED HIM. They do not have the GUILT or the need for REDEMPTION.

    Once one accepts that there is no absolute truth a different world perspective surfaces and the mystics no longer appear a millinium behind.

    Steve

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    Narkissos

    At midway, so to say (that is, about 10 years ago now), I remember I found a new reading of Genesis 22 very helpful, when I noticed the (accidental?) shift of names in the narrative: Elohim asks for the sacrifice, Yhwh stops it.

    Interesting... do you know if that narrative is attributed to the Yahwist or Elohist author?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Siddhashunyata and Steve: it's fascinating how your comments converge from (apparently) very different backgrounds.

    Euphemism: Genesis 22 was essentially attributed to the Elohist writer. I say was, because most exegetes have now given up the old theory of sources and would hardly attribute any Genesis text (whatever the oral traditions behind) to a pre-deuteronomistic period. However, it's still amazing how many Genesis stories, even though probably written after the Deuteronomistic general frame was set, show a much more open and tolerant spirit to the polytheistic view than the Deuteronomist's predication.

  • Siddhashunyata
    Siddhashunyata

    To a "seeker", disillusionment (with a belief system ie: Fundamentalism, JW) becomes liberation from belief itself. This opens the door to another way of seeking , the way of no belief and no thought. There being no thought, there is no guilt, no judgement, just observation and action.

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