Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop 102 Replies latest jw friends

  • Xanthippe

    Hi kpop. I am content that there isn't a god. I live each day as it comes and try to be happy. I'm not afraid of death but I believe there is a distinct possibility consciousness can exist beyond physical death. If I'm wrong, then I won't know or care.

    I think we should live ethically, do the right thing even though no one's watching and treat other people with respect. I don't need a god for that. I hope you're coping with your changing beliefs, it can be challenging.

  • slimboyfat

    Actually, according to the gospel of Luke, Jesus apparently thought that innocent people die in disasters and he did believe this was compatible with his view of God. (Luke 13) So the idea of a God who allows innocent people to die does not contradict what Jesus taught, in fact it is exactly what he taught.

    To be clear: I am not saying that I believe natural disasters don't pose a challenge to the idea of a loving God. They pose a very serious challenge. And the 2004 tsunami is what made me lose faith in God.

    What I am saying is that it is at least possible that there are some facts or some perspective I have not considered that could alter the situation in ways that I would currently find surprising.

  • cofty
    So the idea of a God who allows innocent people to die does not contradict what Jesus taught,

    Yes it does. Apparently they weren't innocent. He thought those particular individuals deserved it. That was the whole point of the text.

    Tell me how murdering a quarter of a million men, women and children can be a perfect act of love.

    I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous... Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. - Matt.5

    Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Matt.6

    But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. - Luke 6

    Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. - Luke 12

    Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. - Jas.1

    "Love ... always protects" - 1 Cor.13

  • slimboyfat
    Like 13:4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

    It doesn't sound like Jesus was saying that it, it sounds like he was saying bad things can happen to anyone.

  • cofty

    They perished because they were "guilty". Therefore repent or you will perish too.

  • slimboyfat

    Jesus says they were "no more guilty" than anyone else. Are you reading the same thing?

  • doofdaddy

    Occam's razor:

    The principle can be interpreted as stating Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected (Wkda).

  • cofty
    Are you reading the same thing?
    Yes. But your comprehension skills seem to be lacking.

    The men who died in the tower were guilty and deserving of death. But no more guilty than the rest of Jerusalem - all of whom rejected Jesus' call to repentance.

    The victims of the Asian tsunami included thousands of christians who had repented as well as countless innocent babies and infants. This was not a perfect act of love. Therefore the god of Jesus does not exist.

  • slimboyfat

    Well I'd be interested if any commentary reads it that way. I find the straightforward interpretation easiest, for example Matthew Henry:

    Mention was made to Christ of the death of some Galileans. This tragical story is briefly related here, and is not met with in any historians. In Christ's reply he spoke of another event, which, like it, gave an instance of people taken away by sudden death. Towers, that are built for safety, often prove to be men's destruction. He cautioned his hearers not to blame great sufferers, as if they were therefore to be accounted great sinners. As no place or employment can secure from the stroke of death, we should consider the sudden removals of others as warnings to ourselves. On these accounts Christ founded a call to repentance. The same Jesus that bids us repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, bids us repent, for otherwise we shall perish.
  • cofty

    Matthew Henry agrees precisely with what I wrote above.

    The men who died were not "great sinners" they were just unrepentant sinners like the rest of Jerusalem. Therefore repent or perish.

    It's bloody simple.

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