by Sharpie 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Cofty said "you might be interested to know that everything you just just wrote would have been a complete mystery to the Bible Students of Russell's time."
Why does that matter? I'm not talking about Russell. I'm talking about the application of the ransom.
But then without the ransom, what hope does anyone have?
Rattigan350:
But then without the ransom, what hope does anyone have?
False dichotomy, magical thinking.
The ‘ransom’ offers the same amount of ‘hope’ as the false hope offered by any other superstitious belief system (including the ones that you reject).
Hope for good things is healthy. Hope for impossible things is denial.
@Jerrro,
Most of the claims of being eyewitnesses of Jesus come from the ‘gospels’ (including Luke-Acts), all of which were anonymously written decades after the alleged events.
There are at least 5 lines of evidence that show very high probability that the earliest Christology is really the highest Christology. Using atheist scholars' own strict criteria, a person can be certain that the message of the death, burial, and resurrection was widely believed and preached upon prior to Paul leaving on his trip to Damascus (2-3 years after the cross)..... and probably just weeks or months afterward.
The "heresy" of this widespread high Christology that Paul kept hearing about was probably one of the main reasons he continued to hunt down Christians; he hated their message.
This video explains:
@sea breeze the articles you pointed at are very weak “evidence”. There is no archeological or historical evidence of Jesus even existing, everything about it has been proven forgeries or interpolations. The scriptures were written a lot later and based on earlier Greek and local stories. If you read the Illiad, nobody says that the writer must have seen something therefore stories about giants and mermaids are true. George Lucas didn’t travel to space, JRR Tolkien didn’t go to middle earth, yet their stories have the same motief, the same Jesus characters, the same Satan characters, good vs evil and explanations for it, promises of paradise and redemption. Yet we don’t believe those stories to be factual.
Ironically, Sea Breeze. I mostly agree with you. It's actually the position of many derided as Jesus Mythers. Xtian origins are proposed to have been from visions of a purely spirit hypostasis fulfilling descriptions among a set of Hellenized Jews. The conviction of a son of God/ son of man descending from the highest heavens to either a low level of heaven or earth to be killed on a tree by the dark forces of evil. I'd certainly describe this as a high Christology. Paul seems to have had his own visions or adaptations, perhaps he was the one who connected this death on a tree to Roman crucifixion, maybe his innovation was simply the full abandonment of the Jewish codes.
It was soon later overlain with a narrative of human existence using OT midrash for most every detail. The conclusion of being crucified typical of many would-be messiahs of the time.
The Bible says ransom is payment in full. Alan F argued in his article: Then legally, why does humanity still suffer. And why works of faith. What ls the legal justification for death and human suffering? However, before AF article, the Knowledge book brought that point out pointing out that after the ransom was paid, God had the legal grounds to bring Armageddon back then in the 1st Century. But he didn’t.
Then when he became king in 1914, it was applied
Playing devils advocate here but prayers for forgiveness are based on the application of the ransom which must apply after God accepted payment. Also, as Alan F pointed out, after God accepted payment for the sin of Adam and Jesus dying and all that suffering as payment in full, what legal grounds is there for human’s death and human suffering, legally speaking. Farkel put it in a very funny way, when is the insurance company going to pay on the premium? It is understood that the ransom gives God law to forgive mankind because the penalty was paid but since the penalty was paid what law still holds man captive to sin and death?
@fisherman: the insurance policy was a scam all along.
However, before AF article, the Knowledge book brought that point out pointing out that after the ransom was paid, God had the legal grounds to bring Armageddon back then in the 1st Century. But he didn’t.
Fisherman,
The idea that God brings about Aramgeddon to kill mankind like roaches is a WT fiction. (All people already die) The antichrist seated on a horse with a bow in Revelation is the one bringing about calamity on the earth. (Jesus fights with a sword from his mouth as the Word of God.)
God does allow this after the church is evuacated. After all, a lot of people really do not want Jesus as King. So, during the GT God allows them a taste of what they claim that they want, freedom from himself and access to unrestrained evil.
I believe untold millions will have a change of heart during this time - they are commonly referred to as tribulation saints in Christian circles.
But, Church Age Christians will be long gone by this time. "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" & "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord". 1 Thess.
Afterwards, Jesus shows up just in time to save Israel. The antichrist will be going beserk trying to destroy Israel. "Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved".
Jesus is in the business of saving people, always has been.
It's all coming... just totally not the way the WT portrays.
