Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

by Sharpie 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Sharpie

  Shower thought entered my mind the other day..

  Jesus Christ. as per doctrine. Is still alive in heaven right now correct? If so what sacrifice took place?

  " Romans 5:12 12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

  The moment when Jesus Christ was killed.. shouldn't life entered the world? But if Jesus Christ still exists, what good was the sacrifice? Shouldn't Jesus Christ be destroyed entirely for any sacrifice to take place? Wouldn't everyone born after Christ's death, while maybe not free of sin later in life, at least be born without sin?

  Just trying to think of what the witness doctrine would say to this?
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  waton

  If the ransom sacrifice did not bomb, was it at least a delayed fuse?
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  punkofnice

  sharpster - Jesus Christ. as per doctrine

  Supposing it's all just fairy tales and nonsense?

  Wouldn't that be a much better explanation and show why none of this 'Bible' stuff works in practice?
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  TonusOH

  The idea of dispelling guilt by killing an animal is garish enough. Doing so by killing a person is the sort of thing we might expect from primitive people striving to survive in harsh environments.

  In any case, the understanding is that Jesus sacrificed a human life. His human persona did not sin, and since the wages of sin is death, he paid a penalty for a crime he did not commit. So the value of that life is applied to those who have committed the crime (sin, in all of its forms), and it is available in perpetuity. Since he is God (or God's son, depending on your beliefs), that sacrifice is not limited to a one-time or one-person use.

  If it doesn't make sense... I didn't come up with it. A human society that now had the time to wrestle with much more complex concepts of life/death and good/evil took a few shots at it, and some of their efforts made it into the Bible. It's still barbaric, but we must remember that these were people who fed one another to wild beasts as a form of entertainment meant to keep the masses pacified.
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  cofty

  the value of that life is applied to those who have committed the crime

  Actually that was invented by Rutherford the lawyer.

  Russell taught, much like all evangelical churches, that Jesus' death was vicarious punishment - see Isaiah 53. Barbour thought that was unjust leading to their split.
  
  
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  Rattigan350

  The ransom sacrifice was paid by Jesus when he presented the value of his shed blood to his father Jehovah in heaven after his resurrection and ascension.

  It began being applied then by Jesus being the gobetween for prayers.

  Then when he became king in 1914, it was applied when he resurrected his brothers who died and since then the ones who died.

  Then it will be applied during the 1000 years on those alive on earth.
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  cofty

  Ratty - you might be interested to know that everything you just just wrote would have been a complete mystery to the Bible Students of Russell's time.

  It was a legalistic invention of Rutherford and it is this as much as the Trinity that puts the Watchtower outside the Christian mainstream.
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  dropoffyourkeylee

  The ransom never did make sense to me. Later in life, after JW indoctrination, I came to believe that the ransom reasoning was concocted by Paul as a way to convince the people of the time that sacrifices were not necessary to worship. The non-Jews, gentiles, who he was preaching to were accustomed to going to a temple somewhere, presenting some sacrifice, and this was their worship. He was trying to convince them to become Christians and they didn't have to sacrifice anything anymore. Maybe that is over simplifying, but that is what I get out of it
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  enoughisenough

  one thing I think sure is if you think it isn't working, doesn't work, never ever worked...then in your behalf, it won't work. reference John 3:16
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  waton

  The basis for the ransom doctrine is the talking snake story, or failure to try the tree of life as an instant remedy.

  As an alternative to this drawn out saga, consider that

  Each human death furthers the betterment of the human race. a) early death, you were too daring or flawed. (but had the privilege of existence) b) late death, you could father children in your nineties+, and extend the sought- after lifespan for future generations, but

  make room for the next try at advancement.