#1 ANSWER THIS: Why would an omnibenevolent and omniscient god put us through tests of faith?

by EdenOne 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    I'll be starting a series "Answer this:" with thought-provoking questions for debate. Your arguments for and against are most welcome.

    I'll start with this:

    Why would an omnibenevolent and omniscient god put us through tests of faith?

    Think about Adam, Eve, Abraham, Job .... as well as modern examples.

    if god is able to foretell the outcome, and can do no evil (notice that not stopping evil when you have the power to do so is in itself evil) then why god put humans through tests of faith - many of them consisting of unimaginable suffering?

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    well there are multiple ways of answering this question, edenOne. Suffering and pain has always stumped mankind and there have been so many different ways of attending to this aspect of human life. Fictional ways of addressing the question are the most fruitful imo as this is an area of inexplicability and calls for some divine fictionality - my new words.

    at the moment I like Plato the best and I am using this to help myself and help a friend as we both have levels of pain - that person has much more than me. Plato, in a fictional context, thought that non conformity was the best and most eternal way of being. Anything, according to Plato that puts one into this category of non conforming means that one is set on a path of eternity. That is a tantalising thought isn't it and well worth considering particularly when we put it with physics chemistry and change and how this happens in the universe. (Still in fictional mode btw).

    In the universe some processes always stay the same (this is fact) and some things change and in changing these things draw a blank (this is fact and proven by experimentation)- hanging in the air so to speak - until they get picked up by chemicals and laws of physics that eventually make them part of new unchanging processes. Plato seemed to sense these things as such had been part of speculation from approx thousands of years earlier and beyond.

    don't laugh as I really thing fictional things can help people out of a bind.After all doesn't nature produce fictional scenes for our enjoyment. The beautiful bush flowering in my garden has enormous spiders spawning new ones at the moment lurking within its branches.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Ugh. Spiders. Bad. Evil.

  • nowwhat?
    nowwhat?

    In a similar vein, I always wondered why Jehovah doesn't test the angels especially since a third of them defected and joined satan. Its up to us puny fragile humans to vindicate gods name?

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann

    Authenticity.

    God is justice. Justice demands authenticity. Free-will must be tested.

    Humans and every spiritual being must be tested.

    Even God put Himself under the test of authenticity. The ultimate reason why He did it it's a complete mystery. Same thing to His baptism.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticity_(philosophy)

  • babygirl30
    babygirl30

    I often questioned this myself...

    1. If God knows all, why would he create humans he KNEW were going to 'ruin things' for everyone after?

    2. Why would God just not kick Adam and Eve to the curb, create new humans, and let us all have a fighting chance?

    3. What kind of God knowing sits back and watches people suffer - all to prove a POINT to a bad angel HE created (and could've destroyed)?

    4. Didnt God KNOW all the crazy crap that was going to take place beforehand...so why didnt he intervene? And why were the Israelites of old times 'good enough' for miracles and saving from harm/starvation/death right on the spot...yet WE today arent?

    5. Why did God allow Satan to even BE in Eden and taunt Adam and Eve? Isnt that playing games with people? And after they sinned, why not just erase their memory and start over? Why allow 1 mistake by 2 dummies cause such a ripple effect?

    I have always been curious about those things - because outside of the surface reasoning the JWs provide, there never was any clear answer.

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather

    EdenOne,

    There are many ways of answering and analyzing this question.

    People will argue on the premise: "God does not put us through tests" but "allows tests to come on us".

    You said: Not stopping evil when you have the power to do so is evil in itself. Not necessarily in all cases. It depends on how much we know about the 'tests' people are facing. My cousin is currently suffering from a terminal disease with unimaginable pain. Some people around him feel that if God has unlimited power, why does he let him go through such pain? Why doesn't he heal him?

    However, known to us and other family members, my cousin (never a JW) had made extreme bad choices in life (drugs, violent gangs, etc) and is now suffering from STD and a miserable life. Should God come and stop his suffering since he has the power to do so? Who is evil? God or my cousin? Is God putting him through tests of faith? or Is God allowing him to suffer the consequences of his own decisions? His JW wife is doing extremely well in taking care of him, their children, her parents, doing two jobs a day and living as a JW. All with a constant smile on her face. If you ask me, do miracles happen? Yes, what she achieves is nothing short of a miracle.It is because of her sheer willpower that he has managed to survive so long. So i feel, If God exists, then he has done a good job by not miraculously healing my brother and at the same he is doing a great job by empowering my sis-in-law to endure all this.

    You can argue on this point on and on. According to me, it all depends on how much I know about the situation or the 'evil' and trying to understand why certain things we call 'evil' are happening, rather than squarely putting the entire blame on God.

    We are all human beings created with a sense of proper decision making. We either suffer evil because of our own decisions or due to bad decisions taken by others. And it is up to us whether we chose to sit and cry over our misery and blame God for our suffering or stand up and try to use the 'God-given' abilities to come out of our suffering.

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    An old friend of mine who was really like a brother to me in the Jehovah's Witnesses contacted me a couple of years ago. He let me know he no longer believed that the JWs are the true religion and, as he so eloquently put it "that crap about overlapping generations," and that he was ready to come on out. We talked a handful of times and then it all stopped. After some time of silence from him, I finally heard back. It was a brief note, and the last communication since, but just a brief text: "I can't leave. What if they're right?"

    There is a method some teachers use with students. You often see it more with coaches and college professors than anyone else, but they will often put pupils to a test that can often lead to some abandoning the course or leaving the team. While some of those who give up are freely allowed to go, select others will be stopped. "Not you," the instructor will say. They will apply pressure to force such students to undergo their test. Why? Because they know the student's potential and the outcome of the student if they but allow themselves to undergo a test they would have otherwise given up on before attempting. Sometimes you have to test someone with the impossible in order for them to stop believing in the impossible. Sometimes the student must test their own perceptions in order to accept reality.

    In Judaism, this is one of the main explanations on why God tests us. Like that friend of mine who is still a JW, he won't believe it if I or you or anyone else tells him that there isn't a chance that the Witnesses are right. He has to experience it for himself. He doesn't need to be reasoned with. He needs to experience for himself that he is being held captive by his own beliefs about the Witnesses. He has to see by example that his beliefs don't work, that the world is not flat. Sometimes God tests some of us to force us to face and overcome what holds us back. God knows the outcome, but we don't.

    There are other possibilities too in some instances. Briefly they are:

    1. We are wrong about how we define God's benevolence and, like a child who thinks their parents are being unfair or mean, see a test from a wrong perspective.

    2. We are applying a limited Christian interpretation of Scripture to God, and are reading "tests" in the Bible where there are none. Was Adam and Eve really being tested with the Tree of Knowledge or is that something you are holding over from Watchtower theology?

    3. You are reading into actual Scripture narratives of tests a successful outcome that isn't there. Christians tend to see Abraham's offering of Isaac as passing a test and proving his faithfulness. Jews often see it as Abraham failing to really understand God, having to be literally stopped due to his lack of insight. The suffering caused by the test is often seen by Jews as due to Abraham's failure, where as it is seen as a grace from God and victory by those who read it in the light of Christ's suffering and crucifixion.

    4. God may not be as all-knowing as some say God is. Does a genius stop learning? Does a body builder stop exercising once they get that "perfect body" they've been working for? No. There is a view in Judaism that God created humans in order to grow in perfection. God would not choose to be static in the perfections God possesses. Because Jewish interaction with God is often to wrestle with God, debate God's demands, and do the very opposite of the obedience and submission which make up Christian and Islamic membership, Jews often feel God made humans to tell God "no," so God could learn that the universe won't fall apart if others live as freely as does God. Jews debate whether God really knows it all and often challenge God on this (like Abraham and Moses did).

    Lastly, "tests" may not really come from God. This could very likely be a very ancient way Scripture described the normal challenges of life. Judaism often sees all things, good and bad, as part of God's creation. Therefore "tests" are merely being attributed to God in Scripture perhaps, just as evil sometimes is. Christians put too much emphasis on trying to read our ancient narratives and primitive mythos as applicable to the evolved and far-advanced God-concept as now understood by Jews. We Jews were primitive once too, you know. Trying to say God is exactly like you read in ancient descriptions of God is pretty unfair. How would you like it if people judged you today based on what they knew of you when you were still a Jehovah's Witness?

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    As a non believer I'm afraid I cannot give an answer or try to justify an imaginary sky magician or not. I will however, enjoy reading the responses you get. I expect to read a lot of meaningless mumbo jumbo.

  • Ding
    Ding

    I don't agree with the WT that life is one big loyalty and endurance test.

    That said, human beings certainly go through a lot of adversity.

    Why would a loving God allow that?

    One thought that comes to mind is building character.

    There are life lessons we learn through tough times that can't be learned any other way.

    Who would you rather have as a friend -- a person who has faced almost no adversity in life or one who has made it through a great deal of it?

    I'm not saying that this explains all human suffering by any means... just giving a reason why a loving God might allow some of it.

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