I am amazed at how people will go to extreme stretches of logic to explain or justify the supposed actions of their god (lower case g intentional, no upper case deserved). I have seen people with wonderful bullshit detectors in normal life, throw all of that ability away in order to retain their hope of a creator who cares for them. I am agnostic, certainly not atheistic, since I think atheism is not provable. There is no lynch pin (reference to previous post). To me, the Bible is clearly a record of people's attempts to justify their actions and beliefs by transferring those actions and desires to be in line with god's will. Like the Bible characters, people today imagine divine interventions in their lives, they justify god's silence, they justify his callous disregard for human suffering and still call him a good father. (much like an abused wife who won't leave her abuser) These people invent complex choreography and gyrations of logic to avoid taking off the rose colored glasses. They then huddle with people of like belief for the good feeling of confirmation. Some even will lead their group for the power or financial gain. The facts are, as Job said, 'man is short lived and glutted with agitation'......or.... Life is hard and then you die!.
Excuses for God
by xelder 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cofty
I am agnostic, certainly not atheistic, since I think atheism is not provable.
There is nothing that needs to be proved for atheism to be the sensible position.
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WhatshallIcallmyself
"i am agnostic, certainly not atheistic, since i think atheism is not provable" - xelder
Atheism is a position taken in relation to Theism in that it rejects the claims of Theism; therefore there is nothing that needs to be proven. The onus is on the positive claim, i.e. there is a god, to be proven truthful. It would be silly to expect someone to prove beyond all reasonable doubt each and every outlandish claim made, whether that be claims about a god or indeed anything else. The onus of evidence is always on the person making the positive claim. Yes, an "Atheist" may state there is no God but that, of course is a positive claim requiring some evidence.
A JW holds an Atheistic position in regards of the claims of all the other gods of this world. In fact it has been said that the only difference between a Christian and an Atheist is that the Atheist has gone just 1 god further...
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Freeandclear
God if he/she/it exists has no and I mean ZERO interest in how we serve "him". If he did there would absolutely NOT be 100,000 different religions on the planet. Can I get an Amen? lol -
Crazyguy
I'll give you an Amun. -
elbib
xelder,
You very truthfully put: “the Bible is clearly a record of people's attempts to justify their actions and beliefs by transferring those actions and desires to be in line with god's will.”
Recently, Christendom theologians have come out with their "best" explanation of suffering—Suffering exists because ‘God too wants to experience suffering through the suffering of humans, or when we go through suffering, Jesus and His Father are completing their suffering through us.’
There is order in the universe (hence the word cosmos) which argues for God's existence. Then there is also chaos in the universe which argues against the existence of God. That means God has left the belief optional, leaving each one to come to his own conclusion.
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Landy
Cofty beat me to it.
Atheism dosn't need to be proved. It can't be proved as it's a negative. The natural state is atheism, It's the existence of a deity that has to be proved
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cofty
There is order in the universe (hence the word cosmos) which argues for God's existence
Really?
That means God has left the belief optional, leaving each one to come to his own conclusion.
Define "god".
The god of christian theism does not exist.
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elbib
Cofty,
I do not have a definition of God. I was just saying my position: We can find both: order and disorder, suffering and sorrow, rich and poor, health and disease, pleasure and pain ….. Taking one side, one can say there exists a God whereas taking other side, one can say God does not exist.
The very fact that religions do not agree with each other shows that God is not interested in people having correct knowledge about Him. If He is not interested, Why should we?
If you are in the Now (being fully involved in whatever you do), you are in heaven [if you are distracted, or if you try to correct other people, have expectation from others, do things the society does not approve ... you make your life a hell]. It means Heaven can be a reality in your life even if you do not believe in God or not. -
LoveUniHateExams
If you are in the Now (being fully involved in whatever you do), you are in heaven - but that's not the case with everyone, I'm afraid.
With cofty, as with me, it may make sense because both cofty and I live in the West, with all the advantages and high standard of living that brings.
But it's certainly not true re people living in the Third World. If they're not slaving away in sweatshops for a pittance, they're being abused and slaughtered by Islamist overlords.