Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam 26 Replies latest social current

• 

  Anony Mous

  The GAA had provisions for land owned prior to 1950, it had exceptions for servants, mining, hospitals and there was a visitation period of 90 days and did not apply to prior designated (in the 1930s) lands for various tribes. That is what the law said, there was no provision for expropriation, land could not be transferred to blacks, but could also not be forcibly transferred to the state.

  It displaced primarily poor people that had moved to the cities, basically moved the slums from the inside to the outside. But that happens today just as well in many countries.
  

  The law you quoted that is being implemented shows clearly that equity (aka DEI or perceived race benefit) is the measure, not land value, and it clearly states that land can be expropriated under the (neo-Marxist) equity doctrine.

  The nil compensation also has many ways out: get chased of your land, or the government deems its value to be lower than their interest in race based equity - poof goes your property. There is nothing in there as far as modern legal parlance that goes to the fair and marketable value of the land.

  Not for nothing that literally tens of thousands of whites and blacks have left the country. Just because Apartheid was bad 75 years ago doesn’t mean you can just “take back” what you perceived to have lost. Reparations are always bad, as you admit is happening under the doctrine that blacks “lost” land because they couldn’t trade for it and somehow “that’s the only thing they’re forcibly taking back”. It also doesn’t justify the slaughter and rape which has been independently verified to be on the order of a genocide and of that you can actually find evidence.

  It also doesn’t explain how the new generations of blacks and the country under ANC in general is doing even worse than before, much of the confiscated lands are laying fallow and the country is already facing food and water shortages as the original farmers are gone and the new farmers have no clue and instead move back to the city for work (similar to what happened in the Holodomor - Stalin killed the Ukrainians, sent a bunch of Russians and surprise - they can’t produce your food). At some point, your failings are your own. Mandela (who was a Marxist) and his party (officially nationalist socialists) demonstrated they are thugs and clueless when it comes to running a country.
• 

  slimboyfat

  It’s hard to escape the conclusion that the distortion of the history of South Africa is in the service of distorting current apartheid in Israel and Palestine. For years the outrage from supporters of Israel was, “how dare you compare us to apartheid South Africa”. Is this now morphing into, “yeah well what was so bad about apartheid South Africa anyway! It was the end of apartheid that was the problem!” A rather unexpected turn (to me at least) if so. And all because South Africa had the temerity to call out genocide when they saw it. The trouble for Israel is that South Africa is no longer the only country calling out the obvious as conditions and starvation in Gaza get worse and worse.
• 

  Earnest

  Anony Mous : That is what the law said, there was no provision for expropriation, land could not be transferred to blacks, but could also not be forcibly transferred to the state.

  Of course there were provisions for expropriation, e.g. Expropriation Act 1975. But the apartheid state didn't need to expropriate land, they just declared it a white group area and all other races had to move.

  Anony Mous : It displaced primarily poor people that had moved to the cities

  It displaced everyone who was not white - poor, middle-class or wealthy.

  Anony Mous : The law you quoted that is being implemented shows clearly that equity (aka DEI or perceived race benefit) is the measure, not land value

  The law says that the amount of compensation must reflect relevant circumstances including (Section 25 (3)) :

  (a) the current use of the property;
  (b) the history of the acquisition and use of the property;
  (c) the market value of the property;
  (d) the extent of direct state investment and subsidy in the acquisition and
  beneficial capital improvement of the property; and
  (e) the purpose of the expropriation

  Anony Mous : Reparations are always bad...

  Why?

  Anony Mous : It also doesn’t justify the slaughter and rape which has been independently verified to be on the order of a genocide and of that you can actually find evidence.

  It didn't occur to me that the reason the South African government is accused of genocide is because of the current situation in Gaza and their "temerity to call out genocide when they saw it". Quite so. There is a lot of crime in South Africa which is why many have left and why farmers have been targeted as they are perceived as being wealthy and isolated i.e. easy prey. But to speak of genocide as if deaths are authorised by the government, as they are in Gaza, is simply self-serving nonsense.
  
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  Anony Mous

  You quoted the law that said nil compensation may be just and equitable. The keywords being equity is how the court interprets takings now. People are pointing at the thousands of farmers that have been displaced, this is nothing new.

  Per Wikipedia:

  Radical political parties, such as the Economic Freedom Fighters and uMkhonto weSizwe (political party), which have wide representation across local government in South Africa, including significant representation in its national legislature following the most recent 2024 South African general election, do condone violent, race-based rhetoric and protest action that support land seizures and attacks or crimes against farmers.[20][21][22] [23]

  Note that MK are the armed forces of ANC, the thing Mandela was the leader of and convicted for.

  Your opinion that it is “just crime” does not stroke with the fact it is condoned by and executed by a faction within the major political ruling party.

  GenocideWatch.org puts South Africa at stage 6 (there are 8 levels). The numbers are currently in the thousands and are not stopping nor slowing down. Many politicians are known to sing songs of hatred against white people such as "Shoot/Kill the Boer” at political rallies and even on the floor of parliament. EFF and MK openly calls for genocide within their government and does so with impunity. Here is the EU asking questions a few years ago: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2018-000476_EN.html

  Gaza is not even relevant here, Gaza attacked Israel, they are losing the war. People die in wars, although Israel is very careful not to hit civilians while Hamas uses them as shields. You want to claim there is a parallel in South Africa, then perhaps war needs to be declared. But nobody is genociding Gazans/Israelis except Hamas.
• 

  punkofnice

  People are tribal. People are self serving.

  Our rulers will capitalise on this and set us one against another. That way we're not challenging them or noticing what cads and bounders they are.

  Oh, I know it's more complicated than that in real life, but that kind of 'nutshells' how I see it on a simple level.
• 

  Earnest

  Anony Mous : You quoted the law that said nil compensation may be just and equitable.

  Yes. If the previous government purchased a farm for me and I am doing nothing with it, what sort of compensation do you think would be just and equitable if the current government expropriated it?

  If you bother to read the Expropriation Act you will see there are safeguards built into it to ensure fairness and justice, including section 25 (1) : "No one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of general application, and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property."

  Anony Mous (quoting Wikipedia) : Radical political parties, such as the [EFF] and [MK (political party)] ... condone violent, race-based rhetoric and protest action that support land seizures and attacks or crimes against farmers.

  Anony Mous : Note that MK are the armed forces of ANC, the thing Mandela was the leader of and convicted for.

  It should first be noted that MK (political party) are not the armed forces of the ANC. If you check the Wikipedia link you provided, you will see it was founded in December 2023, that the ANC has threatened legal action over the use of the name, and that MK's leader, Jacob Zuma, was expelled from the ANC in 2024.

  Most of the rhetoric about land seizures and crimes against farmers is due to the populist leader of the EFF, Julius Malema. He was also expelled from the ANC ("for racism and hate speech"). He thrives on publicity and is regularly taken to court over his inflammatory language. He has been convicted of hate speech twice, and he is taken to court when he incites illegal activity (see Reuters).

  Anony Mous : Your opinion that it is “just crime” does not stroke with the fact it is condoned by and executed by a faction within the major political ruling party.

  Neither Malema (EFF) nor Zuma (MK) are factions within the major political party. They were both expelled from the ANC. They are both populists and gained 9.5% and 14.6% respectively in the 2024 general election. Not to be sneezed at, I suppose, but neither of them were included in the coalition government formed after the election.

  Anony Mous : GenocideWatch.org puts South Africa at stage 6 (there are 8 levels).

  (a) There are ten levels, not eight, and the process is not linear.

  In other words, the fact that there is Polarization (Stage 6) in South Africa does not mean it is four steps away from genocide. It means one element which contributes towards genocide has been identified. Compare that to six stages in the United States - Classification (Stage 1), Symbolization (Stage 2), Discrimination (Stage 3), Dehumanization (Stage 4), Polarization (Stage 6) & Denial (Stage 10).

  (b) There are some elements of Stage 6 (Polarization) which are true in South Africa, like "extremists drive the groups apart", but other elements like "the dominant group passes emergency laws or decrees that grants them total power over the targeted group" are irrelevant. South Africa does go through periods when it is more polarized than others, often coinciding with elections, but in general people get along well.

  Anony Mous : Here is the EU asking questions a few years ago: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2018-000476_EN.html

  That question was specifically put by Udo Voigt,. a German politician and former Member of the European Parliament for the far-right and Neo-Nazi National Democratic Party of Germany between 2014 and 2019. It would seem he was influenced by the propaganda of the far-right in South Africa, as his claims that the murder rate among white South Africans is three times higher than the national average, while that of white farmers is six times higher is easily debunked. In the 2022/23 year there were 51 murders on farms of a total of 27,494 murders nationwide. According to Afriforum there were roughly 60 farm murders a year between 2010 and 2019. Most murders occur in the predominantly black/coloured townships where there are barely any whites.

  Anony Mous : But nobody is genociding Gazans/Israelis except Hamas.
  

  GenocideWatch says this :

  Genocide Watch has concluded that Israel has committed all five acts of genocide enumerated in the Genocide Convention. Israel’s war and destruction of the Palestinian population of Gaza exemplifies all ten stages of genocide. Please read Genocide Watch’s careful analysis of the conclusive evidence of genocide by Israel in our report: Genocide is Never Justifiable.

  The Panel of Experts in International Law convened by the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, UN Special Rapporteurs convened by the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and other reputable human rights organizations have also concluded that Israel is committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide in Gaza.
• 

  slimboyfat

  Note that MK are the armed forces of ANC, the thing Mandela was the leader of and convicted for.

  The link that you provided contradicts this. It says the MK is named after the old ANC paramilitary and that ANC veterans have disowned it. Usually people cite sources that support what they say not contradict it. This is a rather eccentric approach to referencing.