by Maximus 59 Replies latest jw friends
As I posted else where but for those who are just following this thread, the letter to Prof. Gorman is away. Marvin and Maximus were nice enough to edit my letter. The scanned WT QFR is attached to the letter.
Again thanks and lets see if we can wake anyone up.
hawk
I really don't know you, Hawkaw, or Marvin Shimler. Maximus, I do know by family ties.
Many jw's, my family included, are willing to die before allowing a transfusion. My mother-in-law, primarily because of her age of 80, doesn't have the strong ability to understand the new "tacking" the WTBTS is using - but I know she'd choose to die, and to make sure she doesn't sin - she'd do whatever the Hospital Liason Committee "suggested" to her.
Whatever work you do for the good of others, as you've done here - is appreciated by many, whether we know it at the moment or not. All the persons who've worked to expose the errors, distortions, lies in the Jehovah's Witness Blood Doctrine have literally saved lives.
Thank you.
waiting
Nicodemus noted some of the "progressive" articles in the mid 1990's.
Contrast that with the DC program and the flogging of the flock by COs.
That's not tacking, that's turning the boat around completely.
______
I thought long and hard about posting hawkaw's letter but have decided against it for now. One is a technical reason regarding copies I was sent, the other has to do with his own privacy. He can decide that later.
Think about it. Individuals in different countries (I did figure that out) who do not know one another who have come to common-sense reasoning. I have no idea who Lee Elder is or where he is located. My post had nothing to do with AJWRB but clearly I am in sympathy with his stand.
Hawkaw, I've just learned, is a professional who also has a very precise sense of the law--and what is right. I did not know him nor he me, but now he has shared his name and address and put himself on the line for what is right. He's not even a JW, as others on this board. He's got a first-rate brain, but more importantly a first-rate heart.
What's wonderful about this, hawkaw cannot be accused of the usual organization charges, "Running ahead, personal grudge, disgruntled, not waiting on Jehovah, fear of losing his life temporarily, hope in the resurrection fading, didn't make elder," the usual red herring guilt appeal to obfuscate the truth of the argument. They ALWAYS denigrate you this way when they cannot come up with a reasonable rebuttal.
I'm going to post parts of his letter later. Obviously Dr. Gorman knew his argument, and what he wrote, so hawkaw reduced everything concisely and posted questions to him. Scans of Watchtower cover, inside cover to show the some 23,000,000 copies and 141 languages in which his words were flung--courtesy of yet another poster, whom I do know.
A bit of history: I had been totally disinterested in posting on the Internet, but Farkel had suggested I take a close look at JW.Discussion. I did, took a breath and decided to post some heavy duty stuff, knowing full well it might not be easy to follow. After the GB imposter, I made sure I dropped enough specifics so anyone would know I was the genuine article.
I posted the piece about Gorman because when I read the QFR and its quotation of Professor Gorman I knew without question that NO scholar anywhere has "interpreted" Acts 15 or the other scriptures the way the Society has. Wasn't a leap to conclude they would have taken him out of context. I bought a copy of the book, and voila!
I am acutely aware of the GB battle on the blood issue that has raged internally for some time. The average JW has the picture of the faithful wise men on the GB reading the Scriptures prayerfully and coming to a unanimous conclusion about what they mean. Hardly! Problem is, this is not like waiting on Mother to change the Higher Powers doctrine. Kids are bleeding to death.
**There is one specific death that weighs heavily on me to this day. I knew of the policy change on Factor VIII but it had not yet been announced. Urged local elders to call Service about a dying newly baptised individual, but the person spouted old policy, old W's. I called the Service Desk myself, knew the individual, who KNEW the policy had changed but had not had the word officially so he did not bend. Locals conveyed the information--and the man died, leaving small children. Haunts me some thirty years later--as do other deaths. The symbol (blood) became more important than the reality (life).
Then out of the blue comes Marvin Shilmer, whom I know only by a name I saw in reply to the British Medical Journal article. I was deeply moved when I read his reply and comments therein, and I too wanted to write BMJ but just realized there was not much more I could add. I was startled but happy to see his comments in this thread.
That has moved me to think of writing more, including early church history, Acts 15, and background. And there was hawkaw, off on his own, but putting his brain to work, as you have seen, who just writes Marvin, which my not-so-quick mind had overlooked.
So here we are, independently coming to the same conclusions. Hawkaw is modest to the extreme. We didn't edit, much less write his letter; he did. He had already caught his own typos. So when he says "edit," he is just being kind, and modest.
Thank you, hawkaw. The gun is loaded.
More later.
Maximus
Remember when Joyce Brothers was just making her national appearance for the first time? The Borg quoted her work a lot since she was fairly conservative, but instead of being honest about who they were quoting, they always attributed her quotes to "Dr. J. Brothers." I guess they thought people wouldn't listen to a woman.
Franc
Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.
Thank you for posting this information, Maximus. Researching the blood issue on the AJWRB site was the first thing that opened my eyes wide to the evil deception of the WTBTS.
Best regards,
RCat
Maximus,
Like RCat I just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed reading your posts, especially this one. Blood was one of my early hang-ups, too, and I know how important information like this is for all the JW lurkers who haven't come across it before. It's especially useful for newly curious people since misquoted sources are very easy to identify as being misleading and deceptive, and it's rather difficult to honestly dismiss the idea that people should not be dying for a symbol of life.
Thanks for all your hard work. I appreciate it.
-T.
This thread has been difficult to read. I avoided it for as long as I could, but a thread started by Maximus is impossible to ignore.
It's been hard to read on many levels. The dishonesty of the Society is so disgusting words can't describe it. And to know that precious lives have been lost all because of what?
Jerry, you have summed it up very well, my friend, and in a way that never crossed my mind in all my years as a Witness:
Blood is a symbol of something.
The reality is human life, precious to God.
The symbol cannot possibly be more precious than the reality.
A simple, irrefutable truth, beautifully expressed. Thank you all for your contributions to this thread, and here's looking forward to more exposes of this kind.
Teejay, thank you for your kind words.
This information really is hard to take in. The Watchtower banner reads
ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD
"What part of that sentence don't you understand," they say. And then they proceed to say you can take fractions!
When you read the Bible, you find out from Acts 15
THERE WAS NO GOVERNING BODY
D'oh. No scholar has ever claimed there was! Just us Dubs.
In fact, Paul had to counsel those we claim were the GB. My study shows that the Watchtower articles introducing the elder arrangement were written to give some scriptural rationale for divvying up power. Made it easier to diminish the power of the president, Knorr.
That's another story.
Thanks for the warm welcome,
Jerry
Hey Jerry,
About the First Century Governing Body in Jerusalem - yeah, I bought into that one too. Somewhere here there's a thread about it. But the gist was that the brothers in Jerusalem had to be counseled because of erroneous teachings - wasn't it about circumcism, they saying all new christians must be circumcised? Paul was sent to another congregation to counsel these brothers.
They apologized for making problems for brothers, and then sent out their famous letter (WTBTS making it infamous by doublespeak) on "abstaining...." But they were apologizing to the other brothers, not setting precident as GB!
The more we read about the history of the times, how the early Christians behaved, and then rethink the WTBTS spin job, the more logical "worldly Christiandom" scholars sound - at least to see there are more than One Way (the WTBTS Way) to see things.
Hope you're doing ok? Makes the head spin for a while, eh?
waiting
Bringing to the top for Voltaire.
Max
