Article & Documentary on the Divine name

by Blotty 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • peacefulpete

    JWGoneBad...They actually mention Martini few times. They contradict:

    Divine Name Brochure....In time, God’s name came back into use. In 1278 it appeared in Latin in the work Pugio fidei (Dagger of Faith), by Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk. Raymundus Martini used the spelling Yohoua.

    WT 1980 Interestingly, Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, first rendered the divine name as “Jehova.” This form appeared in his book Pugeo Fidei, published in 1270 C.E.​—over 700 years ago.

    Aid book: By combining the vowel signs of ʼAdho·nayʹ and ʼElo·himʹ with the four consonants of the Tetragrammaton the pronunciations Yeho·wahʹ and Yeho·wihʹ were formed. The first of these provided the basis for the Latinized form “Jehova(h) (In the 16th century).” The first recorded use of this form dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270.

    Blotty you might find that last one interesting. The vowels were long known to be from Masoretic vowel points.

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad
    JWGoneBad...They actually mention Martini few times...

    In the above video...l'm referring to the opening post video...give me a time-stamp where honorable mention is made of Raymundo Martini in the above video...duh!🤣

  • peacefulpete
    Sorry if I seemed to be correcting you. My use of the word 'actually' was meant as 'surprisingly' not as a corrective to your comment.
  • Blotty

    Peaceful pete - I believe (not 100% sure) that that concept in itsel was disproven by Greg Stafford and others. Dont quote me on that, Im not 100% it may well be I'm confusing 2 different issues (I dont have time right at this second to look it up tho so apologies)

    But ill admit I do find it interesting (The whole subject to me is interesting)

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Of the people I have personally met who have never been a JW, I almost never hear any of them speak the name Jehovah or Yahweh (or some other version of the name). A number of them use the word "God" a lot and the name "Jesus" a lot, but I never heard (in my entire life) more than about three (or so) of them use the name Jehovah/Yahweh in a conversation to me unless I am the first one in the conversation to mention that name, except when they use it as part of the title of "Jehovah's Witnesses" or of the phrase "Jehovah's Witness". It seems that other than biblical scholars, those who are (or at least have been) JWs are virtually the only ones who in our day speak the name Jehovah/Yahweh (other than when used in one of two of the phrases mentioned above). Apparently the name Jehovah/Yahweh has no appeal to the vast majority (more than 98%) of Christians. Perhaps a big part of that is that most copies of translations of the Bible do not include the name Jehovah/Yahweh more than a few times in the scripture text and most don't even include it all in the scripture text (though some include it in a note of the translators and/or in a Preface). I think that says a lot about modern day Christians.

    In contrast when a JW showed my maternal grandmother (my mother's mother) the name "Jehovah' in the KJV Bible that was a major fact in my grandmother starting to study the Bible with JWs. She was greatly impressed to learn that the God of the Bible has a name. Her studying the Bible with a JW ultimately resulted in her, her husband (my step-grandfather), and my mother becoming a JW, and thus also my sister and I becoming a JW (but I no longer believe in the JW religion, though admittedly I believe in some of their teachings, such that the Hebrew scriptures say that God's name is YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah). My step-grandfather began studying with the JWs soon after his wife began studying.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Revisions to prior post: I revised the last sentence of the the first paragraph to say "I think that fact that such a minute percentage of Christians appreciates the name YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah says a lot about the vast majority of modern day Christians." I add the following as the third paragraph to my prior post. "To me, the best scholarly non-JW books in their analysis of the Bible, of the ones which I have discovered, are ones which considerably use the name YHWH, Yahweh, and/or Jehovah in their text."

  • peacefulpete

    It's very hard to understand because you and I were raised from youth to feature the Tetragramaton as a key element of utmost importance. The fact that most all Christians don't see it that way seems to JWs like a deficiency on their part. For them it seems JWs are obsessed with a nonissue. For them, they have grown to address God as "Our Father" as the Christian Bible says Jesus taught them to pray. It's only when the topic is framed as a conspiracy does it take on importance, hence the WT's obsession with the topic since the 30's.

    For those who study the topic in detail, it becomes clear that YHWH is an artifact, one of the names associated with the God of the Jews for a period of time in history. The name itself, both its true etiology and meaning, were lost to the Jews long ago. Although the hypothesis that it was understood as meaning "passionate, or blow" is quite attractive: A Nearly Forgotten Hypothesis about YHWH

    Perhaps Yah/Yahu was the older form as found in the oldest poetry and songs in the OT and Assyrian texts and not an abbreviation as is commonly (but strangely) assumed. If correct, then etymology and etiology discussions should start here.

    Perhaps it was a toponym, a name of a place associated with a deity, Beth-yahweh for example, or like it appears in the Egyptian texts as "land of the Shashu of yahu" in Edom. (I favor this one)

    Or perhaps that was once part of a liturgical formula such as Du yahwi sabaot (He who creates the heavenly armies) per F.M.Cross, later shortened to Yahweh Sabaot (found hundreds of times in OT) then just Yahweh with the original context lost and free to be reinterpreted.

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