I have a plan....

by DATA-DOG 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs


    With all of the bat-shit crazy propaganda of late, I'm considering talking to my wife about the cult. We have had zero religious discussions for two years.

    The last discussion ended with ,"You have no beliefs, no personal beliefs, because you change your "beliefs" when the WTBTS writes an article." My wife paused and replied, "We know Jehovah's name." 😑

    There has been relative peace in the home since that day, and I am trying to keep it that way. I don't want my mistakes ( being in a cult, marrying the wrong person ( so did she ), getting married way too young in a country town ( so did she ), not listening to my dissonance, ect, ruining my child's prospects. Even so, peace is not merely the absence of conflict.

    By the way, my kid is doing great, still UNBAPTIZED! I'm working on the "higher education/dreams" situation. I never refuse an opportunity to spend time with my child. I have always tried to instill the value of critical thinking at every opportunity. Also, I'm not kicking her out of the nest. And I never, NEVER use guilt trips or encourage "Pioneering." LOL!!

    I have to be at the RC this year, so I'm going to make the best of it. The sickening "shunning" video is going to provide me with an excellent opportunity to help my kid. She always has her phone, so when that video ends...she's getting a text. I'm going to tell her that I love her and I will NEVER abandon her like those parents in the video. I hope it will make an impression.

    Back to the wife... I'm planning on bring up a past discussion, one that involved me sharing TTATT. I told my wife that pretty soon, all she will hear is "ORG, ORG, ORG, GB, GB, GB..", and that "Jehovah" really means ORG/GB. So this RC may be a great opportunity to prove my worth as a "prophet."

    Remember, I'm the guy who realized they were "anointed" and went to the store, bought ingredients and wine, and celebrated the Lord's Evening Meal, alone. Then I told my wife ( this was very serious at the time, because I was learning TTATT and felt that the ORG could be cleansed..) and she cried, saying that she would rather see me die, because at least we would be together ( platonic??) in Pandadise.

    When that shit went down, something clicked inside my brain. Why would "God" cause so much pain by separating a family? Either we all live and die, and go back to "God" ( Hebrews 9:26,27 ) or we all get life on Earth...someday... This was all under the assumption that the Bible is inspired and that humans have just twisted the message. ( Hilarious side point: Mankind has been trying to decode the Bible for centuries upon centuries. LOL!! Nice work, GOD!! )

    Anyhow, the wife still thinks, that I think, that I'm anointed. ( I guess, we don't discuss spiritual things.) I don't, but it does provide a convenient way to explain why I "know" certain things. She's already programmed to believe bullshit, so why not use that to my advantage? Isn't a little mystical manipulation better than saying, "You're a freaking f***tard zombie sheeple! You have no reasoning skills! Nothing you believe and base your life on is true!"?? You can't just yank someone from the Matrix. It's hard enough to open Padora's Box when it's your decision.

    I've rambled enough, I suppose. I think I'm just going to have a cocktail, and say, "Wifey, you are going to hear some bat-shit crazy things at the RC. None of it will happen. The children who you see at the KH will all graduate High School in the next decade. We will bury our parents. The old ones at the KH will be gone. We will continue to get older, and then we are next to go. There's no overlapping generation and the "Evil Slave" in not hypothetical. ( I have to use the Bible angle for now.) Are you going to remember what I've just said in 10 - 20 years??"

    Your thoughts?


  • OneEyedJoe
    and she cried, saying that she would rather see me die, because at least we would be together ( platonic??) in Pandadise.

    My wife said something very similar when I told her I didn't want to be a JW anymore. How can they not see that if their belief system leaves them wishing for the death of the person they love most maybe that's the source of the problem?

    As for playing the anointed angle, I don't see how that will work if she's been keeping up with the latest indoctrination. A recent study article basically said that the anointed aren't special, and with the GB=FDS stuff, they've demoted the anointed into being essentially meaningless.

    I like your plan for your daughter. No kids should have to live in fear that their parents will shun them at the drop of a hat. Maybe you could use something similar on your wife - point out that the phone call in the video could've been an emergency and the mother's shunning could've just as easily lead to their daughter's death as to her returning. Then ask if she could do that to your daughter just because she decided to disassociate or if she took blood to save her life.

    In my experience trying to use doctrine to validate your position or to criticise the org is a lost cause. With my wife, if she didn't like the logical conclusion I came to when discussing doctrine, she would just concluded that I was mistaken and she just wasn't clever enough to figure out how. So I'd suggest skipping doctrine and going for her emotions. That's the cult's method because it works - win the emotional battle and the rest will follow.

    Also, feel free to ignore me...I never managed to get anywhere with my wife. I knew the theory of how to wake someone up, but never was any good at putting it into practice. In any event, I feel for ya. You're in a shit spot to be sure, i wish you the best of luck.

  • TerryWalstrom


    When it comes to communicating with Jehovah’s Witnesses, the critical task, as I’ve suggested, is to go beyond your own understanding and to look at the world from your listener’s point of view. If you self-identify as an Ex-JW, you motivate the Apostasy issues which triggers fight or flight in your listener.

    JW’s are partisans. They are also contrarian. The average JW is like a little kid who brags about how his big brother can “beat anybody up.” JW’s are emboldened to go out and do this actively. These are not highly-educated people, but rather, are practiced and conditioned to bait—troll like—and run away if things go against their arguments. FIGHT or FLIGHT is their pattern. The things which they cannot adequately defend against turn out to be mountain-sized lies told to them which they’ve accepted as TRUTH.

    Now hear this: if you can expose an obvious disconnect between the J-Dub’s trust in TRUTH and the obvious LIE it is built on—the “little kid” has to run back to his “big brother” for help! Suddenly down is up and black is white and the sky is falling!


    We can seek to listen, then understand, and ultimately win over the doubter, the fence-sitter, the straddling skeptic only by beating up their “big brother” because bullies are basically cowards. Make no mistake about it—for all their willingness “to die” for their faith, or allow their own children to expire rather than offend the All-Powerful Oz in the sky—all this is conditioned on the

    VALUE which has been placed on ORGANIZATION’s ability to tell the TRUTH! The magical, mythical FDS or GB is big brother.

    Expose the lying deceit, misrepresentation, and double-speak of their leaders and what happens? The scales fall from their eyes and they wake up! The connection between trust and truth is delicate. It only takes one obvious example to crack the bond. Obvious to you? No--obvious to THEM.

    Creating that wedge and bringing about the crack in trust and confidence brings down the house of cards. The question now becomes, “How is this best accomplished?”


    It is very important to explain the difference between language that convinces and language that manipulates. Are you ready? THERE IS NONE!

    Read the words of writer Aaron Sorkin:

    “There’s no difference. It’s only when manipulation is obvious, then it’s bad manipulation. What I do is every bit as manipulative as some magician doing a magic trick. If I can wave this red silk handkerchief enough in my right hand, I can do whatever I want with my left hand and you’re not going to see it. When you’re writing fiction, everything is manipulation. I’m setting up the situation specifically so that you’ll laugh at this point or cry at this point or be nervous at this point. If you can see how I’m sawing the lady in half, then it’s bad manipulation. If you can’t see how I did that, then it’s good.”

    What is Sorkin telling us?

    As long as the words of the Watchtower Org aren’t seen to be manipulative by JW’s, those words are CONVINCING because they are trusted to be from Almighty God—but when they are exposed as manipulations by ordinary men—the conviction and trust vanish!

    Our task is to expose the manipulation and make it too obvious to ignore.


    In recent times, the entire Ex-JW community has been electrified by the investigation by Australia’s Royal Commission into child sexual abuse in Jehovah’s Witness churches.

    This is by far the most obvious example of how the FDS or GB has lied about being “led by holy spirit” or guided by a Divine Jehovah figure. Logically, if Holy Spirit had any part in channeling JW policy in handling cases of child sexual abuse—well—it’s simply unthinkable, impossible, and instantly falsifying as an acceptable premise!

    1006 files certifying pedophile activity in JW congregations were covered up from authorities, police, child protective services as well as blocking psychologists, counselors and all moral support. Rather than demonstrating “love among themselves” the very opposite has been uncovered and brought to light.

    TV broadcasts from the RC lay bare how clueless, braindead, non-empathetic Elders inside Kingdom Halls “are only following orders” which prevent their own consciences from operating in a practical, common sense manner. Why? They have been manipulated in an evil way. How? Publications and legal advice from the Watchtower Society deliberately distorted the nature of what it means to be a Christian minister tending the flock of God. Legalistic double-talk has short-circuited reporting an obvious crime to police. Old Testament injunctions have been distorted into Catch-22 obstacles to justice.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses will be coaxed, manipulated, urged and threatened into avoiding all contact with this spotlight on corrupt GB activity as revealed in the RC hearings. The Bunker videos at the Conventions are distractions and manipulations to lockdown the trust and mistrust issues of JW’s. The message is: Don’t trust any authority but us!

    The only protection for these lying policies is the total ignorance of Jehovah’s Witnesses. This is where the Ex-JW community can be most effective at destroying the counterfeit bonds of trust. Ex-JW’s will NOT be effective AS APOSTATES. No. In the mind of vulnerable Dubs, connecting Apostate to the RC will nullify any possibility of awakening because the link between FEAR and APOSTATE is too strongly inculcated.

    I posit and suggest that we in the Ex-JW community perform our education of the rank and file as anonymously as possible! Otherwise, we are the enemy and they will fight anything we say as being lies, distortions, and Satan-inspired.

    TO BE EFFECTIVE, WE MUST AVOID TRIGGERING THE REVULSION and conditioned reflex toward apostates implanted in JW's everywhere.

    Fight fire by using fire. Employ the "Theocratic Warfare" principle of "only those who need to know" are told the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    Once the JW awakens to the GB manipulation--then and only then--full disclosure is possible.

    Only then will it be received, processed and undistorted.



    I appreciate the input.

    For the record, I'm NEVER going to say, "I know ABC because I'm anointed!" I'll never bring that up again, which means the WTBTS's tactics to instill doubt concerning all except the GB has worked. THAT PISSES ME OFF.

    I won't say I'm NOT anointed either. If asked, I'll say, "It's personal." Better yet, I'll say, "I'm every bit as "anointed" as the GB."

    I understand that I need to be careful. My wife said, "I won't be married to an apostate!" Well, that was just an empty threat. She's still around. Perhaps it's because I'm borderline "inactive", and not an official "apostate"?

    Yes, the bonds of trust have to be broken. I don't know if I can wait 10 years to say, "I told you so."

    DD 😐

  • Crazyguy
    i can't remember if you still go to meetings? I noticed the hard way that if you stop they remove themselves from you and you no longer matter to them. So keep going if you do and maybe start up again if your not. Concentrate on your kids and keep introducing common sense ideas to them to show a dufferent perspective also educate them about the history of the cult. My wife's brain is completely shut off to anything contrary to the Borg. In time when your kids are out and then you can stop goIng maybe she will start to see the problems but for now talking to your wife probably a huge waste of time and will just cause more problems. So concentrate on your kids.
  • KateWild

    Good for you DD, great plan.......especially the bit about texting your daughter after the video.

    Go for it and keep us updated.

    Kate xx

  • MarkofCane
    "Wifey, you are going to hear some bat-shit crazy things at the RC. None of it will happen. The children who you see at the KH will all graduate High School in the next decade. We will bury our parents. The old ones at the KH will be gone. We will continue to get older, and then we are next to go. There's no overlapping generation and the "Evil Slave" in not hypothetical. ( I have to use the Bible angle for now.) Are you going to remember what I've just said in 10 - 20 years??"


  • under the radar
    under the radar

    For what it's worth, I used the "headship" card to prevent my son from being baptized in his pre- and early teens due to emotional appeals from his clinically and repeatedly unstable mother and her congregation "friends." I absolutely forbade him to get baptized before he turned 18. It was "entirely too serious a decision, with too many lifelong ramifications. You're much too young to make such a decision."

    Some elders and other well-meaning ones tried to talk to me about it, but I told them that was my decision as head of the house and basically to mind their own business.

    On the other hand, I did require him to go to meetings until he was 18, out of respect for his mother. I did not require him to go out in "service." He himself asked his mother, "Why should I go door to door trying to teach people things I don't believe myself?"

    Happily, he never attending another meeting after turning 18, except for a few subsequent Memorials just to please his mom. Now, he is an educated and successful adult who wants nothing to do with organized religion. He has seen behind the curtain, and I am so proud that he can and does make his own decisions about what makes sense and what does not.

  • Daniel1555

    Hey DD

    Very good idea, that you'll text your daughter that you 'll never shun her. Tell her too, that you'll always be there for her, if she needs to talk, and won't let her go unanswered.

    Maybe you can tell your wife the same. That you will always be there for your daughter, and that you find that video really shocking and that it offended and hurt you deeply. Mention that you would also never shun her (your wife).

  • problemaddict 2
    problemaddict 2

    Ok I'll just shoot from the hip.

    How about.......babycakes or (insert kind name here), you know I am going to the RC with you this year, and you know that isn't easy for me. I don't want to fight, because I love you very much, but I also know there are a lot of very over the top things going to be said this year.

    I wonder if it would be ok, AFTER the convention, for us to have an open and honest conversation about those things. Free of judgement, and flailing emotion. I promise to hold judgement and my temper/rants, if you promise we can have a real back and forth conversation.

    I love you and i know we can do it, its so simple. we should be able to don't you think?

    Anyways.......prob what I would do, but just thought I would throw it out there.

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