Fight Fire With Fire!

by The Searcher 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher
    Since many J.W. wolves use their "loyalty" questions to trap others - "Do you believe we're living in the last days/this is God's organization/faithful slave?" - yet resolutely avoid discussing topics which put their org in a bad light, my "loyalty" question to them would be - "Do you accept literature truth over Bible truth?" They will either run or be forced to ask for examples of alleged differences.

    Any other suggestions for "loyalty" questions?

  • Schnufti

    I haven't been in this situation yet, but these are the things I would say. Of course in a humble, gentle, non-confronting tone:

    "The GB says in the February WT that they are not inspired. They also said that they are not prophets, and that the GB consists of imperfect men. Yes, I agree with all they said about themselves!

    (But I'm interested in how exactly the GB is led by Jehovah. They do pray for the Holy Spirit, don't they? And can't I pray for the Holy Spirit too? So where is the difference?

    And if an other religion changes its teachings or makes mistakes, we point out that therefore they cannot have been led by God. But if a householder brings up that we have changed our teachings, we say that it is New Light. Can't those other religions say the same about themselves? How can we show the householder the difference?)"

    Another idea:

    "What do we need to understand the bible?" - "The right attitude and the Holy Spirit. Oh, and the Faithful and Discreet Slave." - "In what organization was Russel? Who helped him understand the bible?"

  • nicolaou

    "If the Bible said 1 plus 1 equalled 3 would you believe it?"

    If the answer is yes you really have little hope but an honest 'no' can be used to discuss the miracle of the loaves and fishes which is nothing other than 1+1=3. A similar approach works fo all the miracles.

    Don't force it though, let them chew on it.

  • A Believer
    A Believer

    The literature like the bible teach book is used to help understand the scripture. Some think the Bible is too complicated.

    I fully believe we are living in the last days. Can't wait until all is fixed.

  • Vanderhoven7

    The literature like the bible teach book is used to help understand the scripture.

    Unfortunately, WT literature is often used to give an unwarranted spin to scripture

    And actually, every doctrine that is original/unique to your religion is extra-biblical and therefore supported only through interpretive abuse.

  • nicolaou
  • scratchme1010

    Any other suggestions for "loyalty" questions?

    I waste no time trying to use their teachings and reasoning with them about what they know. If I want to question people's loyalty, I can't care less about what they have to say about their teachings. What I address is what a lot of people seem to fail to see: their feelings.

    I ask them what their "experience" is. They love, love, love to give their charming stories about how they became JWs. I listen carefully to their stories. By listening, I can identify exactly the reasons why they joined. That tells me a lot more about them and about what made them join and remain loyal to the WT than whatever they claim they have learned from the WT. It also put their guards down since they see that I am listening to what they have to say, especially since they are talking about their own personal experiences. I don't interrupt, and I let them say everything and anything related to their story. I only stop them when their story starts becoming about them pushing their WT agenda, then I either redirect or stand my ground and tell them that it's my time to talk.

    High chances are that what makes them rethink has nothing to do with the WT teachings and everything to do with what the WT makes them FEEL. Here are the most common present elements in people's stories, along with the feelings around them:

    • The WT helped me make a difficult decisions (confusion, loneliness, uncertainty around leaving an abusive partner, stop using drugs, put their lives together, go through loss, etc.)
    • The WT gave me hope about the state of affairs in the world (fear of the future, dissatisfaction with the way life/the world is, social struggles over discrimination, etc.)
    • The WT gave me a place to belong to (loneliness)
    • The WT told me that I can see my lost loved one again (sadness, depression over loss)
    • The WT teaches me that we're the only ones with the only truth, and the only ones doing what's necessary to achieve eternal paradise on Earth (A way/reason to feel superior, feeding their egos)
    • Soon all bad things in the world, even animals eating other animals, will end (sense of certainty about the future)
    • The WT praises me for being in the right path (spiritual fulfillment)

    In many cases, especially those who no matter what you tell them, they will continue to hold on to their Jehovah, there's not a single thing related to doctrine, teaching, history, events, the WT changing positions and teachings, elders getting arrested, none of that makes a dent, unless you address what keeps them holding on to the WT, which is their feelings.

    Think about it, when people decide to join, there are a large number of things that they don't KNOW about the WT and their teachings, so what makes them stick is not what they learn, but what they feel. Furthermore, just look at most of the posts here from people who have left. Many still believe the JW nonsense but left due to something that makes them FEEL uncomfortable.

    What I address is the fact that they are holding on to something harmful because they have obtained something that they find valuable, but the price they are paying for it is too high.

  • eva luna
    eva luna

    First off , I now avoid people that ask that trap question.

    Years ago when I was doing my fade, and got the friendly visit with a CO and an Elder I did really like.

    I lied. I told them what they needed to hear. Got to keep it very short though, and look very hurt and shocked.

    Heck , I was taught by them to lie as a kid. ' Grandma I don't like Christmas gifts. I get gifts all year long.' lol

    No guilt. 'Theocratic warfare' Karma

    Life is to short to have that type of conversation. If stupid me can figure it out , than they can too, if they want to. They don't. Gosh they all have their Ipads , it's at their finger tips.


    "Do you accept literature truth over Bible truth?"

    A JW would say..

    Only the WBT$ is capable of translating the bible properly..

    So there is no conflict unless you don`t accept the WBT$ interpretation..


    Image result for businessman pointing

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    @ A Believer - "The literature like the bible teach book is used to help understand the scripture."

    The literature teaches that "new" scrolls will be opened - during Christ's 1000 years reign - and that they will contain "new teachings."

    Revelation 20:1-12 totally repudiates all three of these false teachings by the WTBTS:

    there are no "new" scrolls, the scrolls are opened after the 1000 years & after Satan is destroyed, and people are judged by what's in the scrolls - not educated by them! It's there in black & white.

    Question: "Are you going to continue to accept what you read in the literature, or what you read in your Bible?"

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