Apostate organizations, will they take down the religion?

by spiritwalker 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • spiritwalker
    spiritwalker

    One of the main themes I have noticed to former Jehovah?s Witnesses boards, is the mentioning of apostate Jehovah?s Witness organizations and publications. While I realize the reason behind these organizations, I also see them as far less powerful then many would like to think. Not that their efforts are wasted, as I know many take a lot of passion and time to their work. More that the power they think they hold, is just not there. Why do I say this?

    As a former Witness, I have had enough time to learn what the real world thinks of the Witness religion. They do not think it is a religion ran by God, they do not think it is perfect and they do not think it is the one true religion. In most cases, they think it is a small religion that is basically a cult. Being such, they see this cult as something they expect the worse from and not something wonderful and inspiring. So when apostates write books and are seen on news programs exposing the Witnesses, it only enforces their existing negative impression. Why then, as a former Witness, do they seem so much more powerful to you?

    Well it can be summed up in one thought, familiarity. You are familiar with the Witnesses and their life-style. You know from years of association, with the Witnesses, what kind of image they think they are displaying and some where down the line you thought others really felt that way about them too. Mostly, because you heard examples on stage and read of examples in publications, of people saying such wonderful things about the Witnesses. Yet, did you ever wonder why these people did not become Witnesses? It was because, despite their positive comment (that could have been censored and edited) they knew the religion was a cult.

    In my circle of friends, I know teachers, employers and other professionals. I will tell you, many of these people will say, "Witnesses are often good students and good employees. They are hard workers and often very honest." Yet does this mean they have a positive opinion of the Witness religion? No, in all cases they see these as morals taught to the children that could easily be mentioned about their other students and employees, as well. Yet the other employees and students have not been as open about what religion they are, as the Witnesses have been. So it kind of makes the classification easier with the Witnesses. However, I have also learned, that many of my friends have very high and higher opinions of Mormon children and employees too. You will never see that in a Watchtower.

    So am I saying that Apostates are wasting their time? In some ways, yes. Only though, if they are getting into the effort with the faults hope of thinking they are exposing something to the world that is simply not new. If they think the world revolves around the Witnesses, they would be wrong. If they think the general public even cares about the Witnesses, they would be wrong too. They are seen as a cult, they are expected to show cult problems and traits and they expect nothing less. So who benefits from these Apostate efforts?

    Former Witnesses are often in a inner mental battle of trying to convince themselves that the organization is really what the world already knows. They want to hear others give examples and they want to see others history in writing and in media, to see they are not alone. So that they keep themselves strong enough, to stay away and not return to the thing that gives them so much trouble. Yet, because we as humans, see the universe orbiting us. We start to convince ourselves that what is so important to us, should be as important to others. An easy mistake to make, as it is our cause and history and it has personal meaning to us. Especially when you realize how much the religion was your whole life. Just don?t fool your self and get frustrated.

    When you read about something the Witnesses did, exposed into the main stream media. Don?t sit there thinking, "this is going to take the organization down and show the world I am right." It wont! Apostate groups were around in the time of Russell and there was only a few thousand members then. Apostates will always be in the picture and they will always be exposing what people expect to see from a cult, yet they will not take the organization down. That will only happen when an individual inside the religion, leaves for their own reason and takes it down themselves from inside as one person.

    I am convinced, that in a hundred years, there will be the Witness religion in some form and there will be apostates with a new message an a new exposure of problems to broadcast and I am convinced that there will be former Witnesses that think the world will be surprised, and I am convinced that they wont be. Why? Because it is the same in the past, the present and why not then, the future.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee
    apostate Jehovah?s Witness organizations

    what and where? You would not believe the resistence here to any type of organization

    and publications

    yea they exist but they are nowhere near as numerous as the WT crap that gets pedaled

  • spiritwalker
    spiritwalker

    Lady Lee

    As I have said on other post. I read other former Witness boards and choose to post here, as I feel the group is larger and has a more varied response. I have found that some other boards tend to lean one way very strong and no balance. So if you find my comments on the Ex-Jw board is a general statement about the whole online scene.

  • avishai
    avishai

    Good points! However, I believe most of us have no illusions of taking the watchtower completely down, as nice as that would be. I for one enjoy helping people on the way out. I just want them to change their continuing policy of non-reporting, & I fell the only way that will happen is if they have to pay through the nose.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Sorry I have not read this other post you are referring to.

    My point was that a simple gathering such as we have here or on any internet discussion board does not mean there is some organization. That is simple an idea that the WTS uses to scare the slaves.

    There is no worldwide apostate organization that I know of that has a goal to bring down the WTS or to even expose its lies.

    While there are amny individuals who work on their own to expose the WTS I do not believe there is some "organization" to it.

    Perhaps the word you use "organization" causes some problem here because it genarally refers to some kind of structure and goal

    or maybe I'm just tired and misunderstood

  • spiritwalker
    spiritwalker

    Perhaps the word used, "organization," causes some problem here because it generally refers to some kind of structure and goal. I have researched enough to say that the word organization can and does apply to many apostate groups. Whether they be a local organization or even a online one.

    Organization : A structure through which individuals cooperate systematically to conduct business.

    While the word often brings up such thoughts as, religions, corporations and charity groups. There are apostate organizations mentioned on many former Witness boards. As example, it did not take me very long to see links and references to a group called; silentlambs.org. When I had communication with this group, I got the strong feeling that I was speaking with an organization and not just a social group. Another organization I know of, is several locally to where I live that organize protest and appear on news programs and produce publications. While your own personal interest and feelings, may differ from my own, I think the word organization can have a strict and loose interpretation and the way things look to yourself are not always the way they are perceived by others. Which often, for me, allows me the ability to see myself from a different prospective. I see things different, based on my own experiences online.

  • bebu
    bebu

    I think there is a great benefit from exposing the WT, and the goal is not strictly limited to warning non-JWs--which is a decent goal itself, actually.

    The WT won't publish anything scandalous about itself. And JWs generally won't deliberately pick up apostate materials. But if the media picks up a story, then the reality coming from a news anchor or news magazine reporter gets placed up front and personal, right where the loyal, apostate-shunning relatives must see it and squirm with discomfort.

    I do believe that a simple, unorganized "David" can, and should, bring down Goliath, for the sake of JWs who really do have a conscience. The sooner, the better.

    bebu

    PS: I have never been a dub.

  • core
    core

    From what I see/read most posters here are independent and not in any collective or group or organised in any opposition to the WT.

    Any groups that do exist to oppose vigorously the WT (and I am sure that such exists) will have little impact on their target as such acts of opposition are used by the WT to "prove" Satanic opposition and therefore Jehovahs Blessing.

    The WT will continue to mislead for decades yet - each new convert knows little of the past promises, sorry failures, in WT land and provide fertile ground for the Organisation to continue - what WILL have an impact - not on those being attracted to, but on thinking members, of the WT, is the Internet and the availability of comment, information, criticism etc which will aid individuals to determine the correctness or otherwise of what they are led to believe. Fanatic organised opposition will, in my opinion, strengthen the WTs hand and make many honest hearted ones turn away from looking for themselves at calm, moderate detail which cannot be dismissed as "Satanic Opposition" as such will be all categorised by the WT as "WICKED APOSTATES"

  • garybuss
    garybuss


    Hi spiritwalker, Thanks for the thread. Your post seems to tell me that you might see my writings being directed at the general non-Witness population. I am almost indifferent to the non-Witnesses, except to want to warn those vulnerable to Witness recruiters to the dangers of the group. Dangers that are not disclosed by the recruiters. My intended audience is other former Witnesses and current Witnesses looking for rational information, friendship, and support in returning to health and establishing a healthy, comfortable life.

    I don't think I harbor any delusions of bankrupting the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation. I do want to keep club type Witnesses away from me and my family. Being a visible critic accomplishes that very nicely.

    Many of us have floating periods after leaving association or after being kicked out. Communicating with other former group members help us through those times as well as treats the loneliness that often accompanies leaving a high control group. GaryB

  • sis in distress
    sis in distress

    I fully agree that there will not be any BRINGING DOWN OF THE WT and the reason is simple, history teaches us that there are very few things in life that impacts folks as much as the concept of "GOD" and all the things that are attached to that concept, - ie- holy book, prophets, holy temples, ritual, rules, organized structure, a social circle known as bro & sis, etc-

    this basic foundation is found in practicallY ALL BELEIF SYSTEMS in some form or another,

    the best example that i can site it the catholic church, - it currently has over a billions follower, yet a person using Critical thinking would look at the facts and conclude they should have very very few if any followers, and why

    well look at their track record, they have Killed, murder, tortured and brutalized more folks in the name of god than perhaps any other well known, faith,

    with that as the history of the church, one would assume that very few folks would look at all that blood on the alter of innocent men, women and child and conclude THE "LARD" not :ord, but the "LARD" is indeed using this group-

    and this can be repeated over and over and over- in all kinds of belief systems, even when exposed there are always some followers who will give them a WAVER- IN some cases more folks give them a bye and perhaps in other cases less folks, but the bottom line is THEY WILL GET A BYE from their followers

    so to me i see very little difference in the basic foundation upon which for the most part all BELEIF SYSTEMS ARE BUILT

    "We speak for god , don't listen to US and our god will kill you"

    that is the basic message at it's core level, and it has to be for withouf scaring the hell out of folks how else could one get others to do the GOOFY STUFF THAT belief systems require of it's folllowers

    the concept of PUNISHMENT AND REWARD IS as old as man and that is the foundation upon which belief systems operate

    and it's kinda cool at just how EFFECTIVE it has proven to be over the years-

    so after the Break with the Catholic church with the Prodesant Reformation the church didn't tumble down, it just merely reworked some dogmas and techniques of recuritment and kept on stepping and the same with JW if one take a serious look at the Wt of the year 2003 and the wt of 1903, there is almost no comparision, and that is the same for most belief system, they either change or die out- and most Opt to change to survive-

    take a look at your avg church, my mom tells me that most churches almost on a monthly basis - at least regualarly had a sermon on sunday that was HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE and she would tell us that when she was a little girl she would come home scared shi!tless

    now on monday go to work and ask your avg fellow employee when was the last they had a sermon on a ADULTRY, PREMARTIAL SEX AMONG YOUNG AND OLD FOLK leading to HELLL AND BRIMSTONE

    INSTEAD MOST sermons ARE FLOWERY soft peddle not to offend type, and WHY well that Sh! t don';t work today

    trying to scare kids who dress and look like Snop Dog and Tupac that they are going to hell is a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!1

    In my exp in dealing with former jw very few of the real serious ones who are "Organizing" any type of effort don't do so with the intent or desire to BRIING WT DOWn - most do it simlply to inform the public and current jw of what THE REAL DEAL IS-

    IF there are legal ramifications that cost wt a few dollars all well and good, but i have found very few who seriously think that wt will fall

    religon and belief system by default typically don't fall due to the fact of the product they selL

    THEY SELL HOPE AND as long as mankind has problems, issues and challenges there will always be a need for Hope-

    as long as folks drive SUV we will need GAS - if the gas engine is replaced, places like Iraq will never see troops regardless of how their folks are treated- same with the need for Hope, if the desires of mankind are filled and we have no need to hope for something better, either in this life --osperty Mininstries--or the life after the --PEARLY GATES OF HEAVEN -- MOST OTHER CHURCHES then the product that most belief systems sell will be useless-

    so in my exp very few former jw are holding thier breath for wt to fall, it is like any other INSTITUTION it is self surviving,

    look at communism there are folks out in Russia who still want to go back to that system- so folks longing for things even if it is GOOFY will always be here

    just remember this about religion or Beleif Systems

    Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false, and the rulers see as useful."
    -Roman philosopher Seneca-

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit