Rattigan350, the two classes doctrine is not in scripture. It was made by Russell and turned into something more sinister with Rutherford.
What JWs don't know they believe
spiritual Israel is not the earthly class. The earthly class is the spiritual gentiles.
R: Wt wrote, (dont have the reference) that the 12 tribes of israel, are all those, that are not of the 144 000. Math. 18:29: " you will judge the 12 tribes of Israel"
Rev. 7:  x " 12 000 sealed out of the tribe of Joseph"
The 12 tribes are not the 144 000, the 12 are obviously are a bigger entity. the wt "earthly class"
Is the Israel of God is made up of 12 tribes?
Congratulations: You coined a new phrase: "spiritual gentiles" if the term was in the bible, would we call them "the gentiles of god"?
Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant between Jehovah God and the anointed Christians numbering 144,000. No argument there.
R: yes there is, because 1) the new covenant is for forgiveness of sins, and not the kingdom, 2) the old covenant was for with all of Israel, not just the line of David or the Levites. the new covenant follows that pattern. so:
stir the nest by saying: The earthly class are the 12 tribes of Israel.
How does that wake up anyone? Nothing wrong with those teachings. R 350:
as you lead a simpleton witness along in the reasoning: the sealed 144k come out of the 12 tribes, and the 12 tribes must be the "Israel of God " in the new covenant for forgiveness of sins, it will dawn on them, that
all of them,like Israel should partake of the emblems to get the right to everlasting life. John 6, all (of israel) ate of the manna, not just the priests and Judeans, future kings.
Jesus fed the bread to people not anointed, with an earthly hope. (Act 1:7)
there is plenty wrong with those teachings, and exposing the emptiness of wt doctrines, ,one point, one step at a time, is a great method.
I asked my husband if he knew that at one time beastiality wasn't grounds for divorce. He couldn't believe it, but saw it in the Watchtower.
I think the current JW's only have a basic overview of their religion. They know the big chunks about Armageddon, Paradise and living forever. They're convinced that all non-JW's are wicked and everyone else's religion is false and dismiss any proof to the contrary.
I've had them call at my door and tell me :
"Oh, we don't claim that only those who become JW's will be saved at Armageddon...that's up to Jehovah to decide".
I ask them if that's the case, why do they claim that their message is "urgent" and "life saving"?
Why do JW's claim that other religions are part of "Babylon the Great" and anyone who belongs to them will go down with her at Armageddon?
Why do your tell us former JW's that we need to "return to Jehovah" before it's too late?
Their usual response is "Oh...we don't say that either"
My reply is "Do you even read your own literature" ?
They deny the Christian doctrine of Substitution, which states that Jesus died for you, to pay your penalty. The WT says that Jesus died to pay back what Adam lost.
Since the WT teaches that you can self atone when you die, most members never realize the importance of Justification... which is also denied to members.
Justification means that there is no debt. Instead they teach, that through will-power, you can grow to perfection even though scripture rather forcefully states that by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified!
As soon as someone puts faith in their church affiliation and works, what God offers is off the table.
It is cruel irony that when a person seeks to identify THE F&DS, instead of Jesus, they become very unfaithful and indiscreet... as well as a Watchtower slave.
-- The WT says that Jesus died to pay back what Adam lost.
SB: right, giving back the right to paradise, the tree of life, indefinite lifespan, but then wt applies it only to the heavenly class, which wt limits to 144 000, and that really do not need adamic perfection. ***
wt substitutes the new covenant for delivery from sin, with the "kingdom" covenant, and then, only for the partakers.
ordinary joe's get nothing at all.
*** In the "Revelation" book, there is one instance where wt states that the "anointed" have to sacrifice the right to paradise, in order to make it to heaven, just like Jesus, who as the second Adam, had that earthly right.
If wt repeated that, it would be clear to all, that all jws have to partake. The apostles did, while still having the earthly hope!
*** In the "Revelation" book, there is one instance where wt states that the "anointed" have to sacrifice the right to paradise, in order to make it to heaven, like Jesus, who as the second Adam, had that earthly right.
Good point Waton. Yes, the GB considers themselves as martyrs and as paying some price like Jesus did.
This is why they are constantly drawing attention to their own authority instead of Jesus. They are the instead-of-Jesus option, an anti-christ.