any suggestions as to what to say next?

by lisavegas420 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • lisavegas420

    here is todays correspondence, First......Tom started studing after his wife had surgery, six months later, he was baptized, June of this year . His wife of nearly 30 years, died the following week.

    TOM: > > My computer has been down today so I hope I didn't miss you. I enjoyed talking a little about myself and look forward o hearing from you.
    > > Brother Tom

    ME: > Hi Tom, Hope you day is going well....From your last message yesterday, I had the feeling (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that you may have never studied with the witnesses if your wife and job loss had not occured....had you ever listened to the witnesses before that time? I know that you had to have been a good person before that,... was it that you were down and out, so to speak, and the witnesses just happened along at the right time?...if the mormans had stopped by, do you think you would have accepted their message instead? Having been born into the religion, I have a need to understand people that came in to it as an adult....Lisa

    TOM: LISA,
    No I just began to search and talk to God and the witnesses were a great help in understanding Bible truths and living what they
    'preached" To say I was down and out is an understatement but I found the true God and not a human thought based religion. I came back from the hospital one day and found groceries in the driveway...the love the witnesses showed I had never seen in my life. The truth from the Bible made sense to a lot of my mysteries in life....Why man can't seem to govern himself, Why man on his own can't because of our inherited tendency to do wrong. What God started in Gen 3:15 to right the wrong from Adams sin and the depth of his love with the sacrafice of his son. The fact that his son was the first born of creation and with God's help created all things. The prophesies that were fulfilled and the overall theme of the vindication of Jehovah's sovereignty and the sanctification of his name. What a wonderful loving father how he tells us that though we are wicked and give to our children how much more he will give to his loving children. It all just went to my heart and I tear up sometimes just thinking about his love and his long suffering throughout history. I deeply respect the friends who have been raised in the truth and only wish to express my sorrow for not having these truths enculcated in my hart from the beginning. But I focus ahead and have great joy in learning more and showing my faith thru actions. My company had a big 10 year anniv party but I did not attend Ministry School night these ae things that delight Jehovah when He sees love for him and sees my heart

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan
    if the mormans had stopped by, do you think you would have accepted their message instead?

    I don't think so - I imagine that the message he heard from the jws is like a confirmation of his own fears and prejuduces, coupled with an "earthly promise" (payment).

    In effect, they told him what he was expecting to hear, with frills - indeed this basis for the biblical talk of not putting all your trust in your own counsel (ie. the Spirit is more Holy than such a counsel - more wholesome - more everything).

    As jwism is conditional, the 'god' is more loving simply because he waits longer, but not forever though - it's still conditional.

    His heart is now agreeing ( be careful how you hear, for to him who has more will be given) - how ever many words he hears now

    But I focus ahead and have great joy in learning more

    will likely further shore up what he "already knows" about his God.

    I suppose you could say he has been persuaded by his own counsel, and now he will learn more in that way of thinking, but now, with them, he is calling for a different god than mine.

    That "avoid your own counsel" thing is already occuring to him - quite unlike jws tell it.

  • JamesThomas

    Lisa, this may not be what you want to hear, but from the little information you have presented here I see nothing in anything Tom says that looks as if he is questioning his beliefs. There is no crack or opening in which to enter. He is closed minded. A perfect Witness. I would not say anything to him that hinted that you are weak in the "truth". It would probably close him off to you forever. There is a time for everything. This may not be the time to try and loosen the ties that bind your friend. Perhaps just placing focus on building stronger friendship and communication is enough for now -- if he is someone who is that important to you. Be patient. An opening may show itself some other time. Perhaps someone else has advice more specific. Bebu is amazing with this stuff. You may wish to private message her. Good luck. j

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan
    But I focus ahead

    Talk about how his preconceptions have already been facilitated, he already completely trusted his own uninformed counsel for the most important decision.

    and have great joy in learning more

    And it is from now on that he will be told he has no more need of his own ideas

    and showing my faith thru actions.

    Ask if he will be using actions to show others, and himself, his faith (like a proof), or will he be simply witnessing his own new ways like a casual observer, unable to be any other way.

  • lisavegas420

    I agree with A Paduan and JamesThomas....

    Tom has been though alot in the past year...lost his wife and job and started studying ...........I want to be his friend and I don't want to be the one that lets the air out of his 'life in the bubble'.

    The witnesses threw him a life raft, or at least that's how he sees it now, when he was at the lowest time of his life. But now that he has dedicated his life to Jah, things are likely to chance for him.


  • bebu


    I'm not amazing! (...JamesT, such a compliment! )

    I can definitely second the comments by Paduan and JamesT. Let your relationship develop very well. Speak as honestly as you dare, as kindly as you can, without giving away your status. For now.

    It might take as long as 6 months or a year, depending on how often you corrrespond, till you think that he would be willing to listen to something that upsets the apple cart. While you wait, try to help keep his reasoning intact. When you have a chance to sow a small seed that can influence his thinking processes, do that.

    My JW neighbor, for example, is still (technically) married to a guy that was controlling and abusive. He kept her in the dark about their financial affairs so that she would be completely helpless at this time. It was so easy to talk to her about how "controlling information" is a way to keep individuals--or even whole nations--subjugated. I told her how N Korea spreads lies about the rest of the world which the ordinary citizen can't refute--they don't have access to media from outside; how helpful for understanding reality would a telephone or satellite TV be! Withholding information is controlling... She couldn't agree more! Anyway, if you recognize ways to keep his integrity intact as far as his intellect is concerned, you'll be making it easier for when you shift gears.

    At that time, I'd offer up a hint of something that you have discovered that has unsettled you, perhaps the UN thing (unless another scandal is uncovered that's worse!). Tell him that you are concerned for the damage that this could do for the "truth" if this is really slander. Send him a link. Ask him if he's heard of this. Ask his opinion. Share with him as if you were speaking about your own concern when you were discovering all these things. If he balks, tell him that you ran across a scan. Please try to shift the concern gently onto him, and stressing your desire to do all things with integrity. If he really balks, perhaps tell him that you're considering going to ask an elder about it, it disturbs you that much to think that this allegation could be true. That is, stress the proper attitude by which everything should be approached: fearlessly (because the truth can handle it) and with an attitude of being concerned most about integrity.

    He's really in love with the JWs now. But remember: you can show kindness, too, and that can be very effective, especially as your kindness isn't conditional. He's had a long time to learn how to think independently; hopefully that hasn't all been neutralized yet. Maybe in a few months he'll have noticed things actually aren't as perfect in dubdum as he thought...

    Anyway, Lisa: Hats off to you for your effort to help out a stranger!!! You are doing so well!


    PS... what the heck is your avatar???

  • JamesThomas

    ((Bebu)) I rest my case as your post above proves my point. Your clear-headed kindness and patience is a joy to see. It teaches us all how to be more gentle and loving when dealing with our Witness friends. I am glad you take the time to post here. j

  • bebu


    Back at you! You are quite an encourager, yourself.


    PS: Re-reading Paduan, I think these comments should wait for the right time. And used gently, which is easier to convey in person than in text.

  • Gadget

    I agree with bebu. The main thing for now is that your there for him. You can try to introduce things to himn gradually, but you have to be very careful because at the first hint of anything wrong he will shun you. Patiance is the key here.

  • DanTheMan

    I agree with James Thomas, there doesn't seem to be a crack or opening, this guy is in love with JWism right now.

    I quit a job once when I was a newly-converted JW just so I could get away from a guy who was getting quite confrontational with me about the religion (he was a born-again fundamentalist right-winger like you wouldn't believe, William F. Buckley is a bleeding-hearted liberal compared to this guy). So be real easy. Being a JW isn't going to kill him, and it seems to be filling a need for him right now. No big hurry in trying to convince him that it ain't the troof. Judging from his message, I think that it would be more than what he could handle to learn that the borg ain't so grand.

    The false predictions were very unsettling for me as I "progressed" as a JW, 1975 was something I had heard about but was always afraid to look into.

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