Meanwhile they want us to buy battery powered cars. Exactly how is that supposed to work without the ability to charge them?
Meanwhile the UK government has just announced that electric car grants have been scrapped with immediate effect.
George
Aussies closed all the coal power plants...now we have blackouts no electricity!
by Witness 007 23 Replies latest jw experiences
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St George of England
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NonCoinCollector
Meanwhile the UK government has just announced that electric car grants have been scrapped with immediate effect.
That is good news. I don't mind electric bicycles and scooters for short commutes. I have and love my e-bike for that. Electric cars are too expensive, too heavy and too inefficient for what is usually one person in the car. I suppose the same can be said for gas powered cars, which is why I have a motorcycle and e-bikes. Still in high wind, rain, and snow a car is needed.
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Rivergang
Jeffro,
That list you provided which is claimed to show that there are “still over twenty coal fired power stations operating in Australia” is in fact quoting the situation as it was six years ago. Those statistics have no relevance now, during the winter of 2022.
What was planned and what has actually happened are not always the same thing!
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Jeffro
So I’m sure you’ll be along shortly with a verifiable list showing they’ve all since closed 😂
The list includes scheduled closures. If all (or a significant number of) the others had actually also closed since, I’m pretty sure you would have mentioned those rather than just claiming ‘the old list is irrelevant’.
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Rivergang
I never claimed that they had all closed - talk about the "Straw Man" argument!.
YOU, however, claimed that "over twenty" were still in operation.
YOU should therefore be the one producing an up-to-date list demonstrating that this is still the case.
(Instead of citing figures which are six years out of date).
PS: Also, never assume that a power station's "Installed Capacity" - i.e. the total sum of what is written on the nameplate of each of its generators - is what it is capable of sustaining. This is by no means always the case. (Speaking here as a former power station superintendent, I can only say "I wish").
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Rivergang
This pretty much sums the situation up (albeit in language a little less moderate than some other commentators might use!)
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Jeffro
Rivergang:
I never claimed that they had all closed - talk about the "Straw Man" argument!.
The subject of this thread makes the claim. I responded to that claim. You said I was wrong, and you were wrong about that. And you still haven’t provided any evidence that any others were since decommissioned.
Now, if you’re talking about plants that aren’t generating for other reasons (such as gas power plants due to rising gas prices, which is actually at the core of the current issues), that would not be relevant to what I said.
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jonahstourguide
Hi all.
The issue seems to be related to rising prices and the 'Generators' not being able to cover running costs.
This local news article sheds some light. (unintended pun).https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-15/qld-avoid-blackouts-aemo-energy-security/101151282
jtg
An energy economist is calling for an independent inquiry into Queensland's energy production following millions of households being told to conserve power for a second consecutive night due to generators reducing their output in response to a cap on prices.
Key points:
- Power generators were ordered to cover projected electricity supply shortfalls again last night
- Blackouts were avoided with AEMO stating "there was sufficient electricity supplied to meet consumer demand"
- Energy experts have called for urgent government action to avoid ongoing issues
The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) ordered power generators to cover projected electricity supply shortfalls again last night, after a perfect storm of energy chaos in Queensland and New South Wales, including cold weather, offline generators and soaring power prices.
This morning AEMO said despite forecast supply shortfalls, "there was sufficient electricity supplied to meet consumer demand".
"AEMO continues to encourage generators … in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia to bid their availability into the market, rather than being directed to do so," it said.
Meanwhile, Victoria Energy Policy Centre director Bruce Mountain said Australia was in an "absolute market crisis".
Professor Mountain said generators are largely shielded from volatile spot prices (the market value for energy) and effectively holding production to drive up prices.
"Nothing like this has been experienced in Australia," Professor Mountain said.
"What's really going on, I suspect, is bullying by the coal and gas producers – they're pointing to the spot prices."
Bruce Mountain thinks there should be an inquiry into current energy shortages.(ABC News)He said most generators secure their fuel through contracts with the price locked in months in advance.
"I suspect this is quite possibly a very serious case of market cornering," Professor Mountain said.
"We need an independent inquiry into the extent to which their production is affected by spot prices.
"I don't think we can accept at face value the idea that the generators are blameless.
"Serious government action is needed now."
Why are some generators turned off?
Because the AEMO has set a fixed price cap for consumers at $300 a megawatt hour, some generators have withdrawn supply from the market.
What is load shedding?
In the electricity industry, no two words instil a greater sense of fear or failure as load shedding. Here's why.
Read moreGreen Energy Markets director of analysis, Tristan Edis, said the $300 a megawatt hour figure is below the cost of fuel for many gas power plants.
"They've said they don't want to supply electricity because this price is not enough to cover our costs and so they've withdrawn their supply," Mr Edis said.
"They're effectively switching off … or saying: 'I'm not available to generate'.
"It's like someone saying – I want to give you a job but I want you to go 2,000 kilometres away and I want you to drive or fly at your own expense and I'm not going to compensate you for the cost of all this travel.
"It is possible for AEMO to force them online but then they have to compensate them to recover their real costs," he said.
Five of Queensland's power plants are currently out of action. (PublicDomainPictures: Pixabay)Gas prices also remain capped at $40 a gigajoule, so effectively, it is too expensive for some generators to come online.
Energy market analyst David Leitch said it takes around 10GJs of gas to produce 1MWh of electricity.
That meant it would cost gas generators $400 to produce 1MWh of electricity, plus running expenses.
"Your basic cost before you've even made a dollar is around $450," Mr Leitch said.
Mr Leitch said they waited for the market operator to direct them to generate at a loss, entitling them to compensation.
"They covered their costs and made a reasonable profit," Mr Leitch said.
Who will pick up the bill?
The short answer is: the consumer, eventually.
Professor Mountain said generators ordered to come online would make an application to the Australian Energy Market Commission to claw back their costs.
"It is essentially a compensation for the production costs plus a margin," Professor Mountain said.
"It's then up to those market participants to provide evidence they buy on the spot prices."
The cost of intervention will end up on Queenslanders' energy bills down the track.
"It's paid by all consumers, much as they would pay if there was a price set by the market," he said.
Which power generators are offline?
Five government-owned Queensland power generators offline for maintenance.
Queensland Energy Minister Mick de Brenni said that included one gas, one hydro and three coal-powered plants.
"They are going to start coming back on as early as Thursday … [others] will come back on sequentially until April next year," he said.
What the price cap means for your energy bills
Here is what we know about the price cap, the strain on the energy grid and how you can keep your bill and energy consumption as low as possible.
Read moreThe Callide C4 coal-fired generator near Biloela has been offline since an explosion in May last year and the Swanbank E gas generator in Ipswich is also out.
Mr de Brenni said publicly owned generators, Stanwell, CS Energy and Clean Co have been "providing all the supply that they possibly can."
Mr Leitch said recent flooding has also affected coal generation in Queensland and New South Wales.
"[Rain] flooded all the open pit coal mines and restricted supply," he said.
How long will this continue?
An AEMO spokesperson could not provide a time frame on how long tight supply will last.
Spring could bring some relief, with less heating required and more solar generation.
Want more local news?
We offer tailored front pages for local audiences in each state and territory. Find out how to opt in for more Queensland news.
Read moreMr Edis said the risk factors could stay for years, with high gas and coal prices sticking around.
"I suppose the expectation would be that a number of coal generators will come back online and then that will to a large degree alleviate the risk of shortages," he said.
"Unfortunately, it's not going to alleviate the high prices we're seeing at the moment.
"They're going to be here for quite some time because unfortunately the invasion of Ukraine has led to elevated prices for gas which will be maintained for … at least a year to two years and probably the same for the international price of coal.
"That will flow through to electricity prices."
What can be done long term?
Mr Leitch said Queensland has not built enough wind and solar, as coal-fired stations age.
"This has been coming for a decade — Queensland has been the state that's been the slowest about it," he said.
"Queensland should be doing two or three times as much wind or solar that it's doing every year for the next decade."
Associate professor of energy economics at the University of Adelaide Liam Wagner said "a broad range of technologies" must be implemented onto the national market.
"Wind and solar … and hydrogen and pumped hydro to be able to get ourselves away from coal and relying on these very old coal-fired generators which need lots and lots of maintenance and they break down all the time," he said.
Posted 2h ago2 hours ago, updated 11m ago.
jtg -
jonahstourguide
There is possibly more pain on the way for Victoria.
Huge Yallourn coal-fired power plant operating at half capacity as energy crisis pressures mount
ABC Gippsland / By Bec SymonsPosted 1h ago1 hours ago, updated 53m ago53 minutes agoThe Yallourn power station is operating at half capacity.(ABC Gippsland: Jarrod Whittaker)Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this articleHalf of the Yallourn power station in Victoria's Latrobe Valley is offline, placing extra pressure on the national electricity grid.
Key points:
- The Yallourn coal power station in Victoria's Latrobe Valley is operating at half capacity
- Its owner, Energy Australia, says the outage is due to "unplanned maintenance"
- The market operator AEMO has warned of power shortages on the east coast
Energy Australia, which owns Yallourn, said two of its four generating units were offline because of "unplanned maintenance".
It comes as the Australian Energy Market Operator warns of potential blackouts on the east coast because of a shortage of electricity.
Yallourn produces about a fifth of Victoria's electricity when operating at full capacity.
The outage at Yallourn comes amid concerns about generators withdrawing capacity from the grid to take advantage of higher wholesale prices.
AGL also earlier revealed that an outage at its nearby Loy Yang A power station would continue until "the second half of September".
jtg
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Jeffro
Almost all of the coal power stations in Australia that have been decommissioned in recent years were commissioned over 40 years ago and the few exceptions were generally low output. So the suggestion that ‘greenies forced them to close’ is questionable, as is the suggestion that problems now (due to high gas prices and various maintenance/disaster recovery issues) would necessarily have been averted ‘if only the old coal power stations were kept’, despite inefficiency and on-going maintenance requirements due to their age. But rather than relying on coal, Australia really should be taking advantage of nuclear power anyway.