Different, but perhaps better than planned

by bebu 27 Replies latest jw experiences

  • bebu
    bebu

    I re-read your post, Wednesday, and realized no one had answered an important question that you asked.

    The answer to "who is the mediator for r&f JWs" is.... the 144,000 "annointed"!!

    I am not making this up. I don't have the references on hand, but I think you can find them on quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com.

    That is why I posted the comment above, that many will come in Jesus' name and say, "I am the Christ/ the Annointed." And deceive many.

    I'm wondering how they will need to amend their prayers, as well. "And we ask this in the name of the Annointed" is my best guess as to what will be handed to them as, somehow, scriptural. It might look alright, but the real meaning is horribly different from what it appears to mean.

    bebu

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Bebu, The root of compassion, respect and kindness for your JW friend is putting forth a beautiful tree. You are expressing yourself so well, both with your friend and here. If you are not a professional writer, you certainly could be. As far as your planting "seeds of doubt", I believe there are Watchtower articles stressing the importance of researching ones religion. If the Society is the "truth", then diligent research should only reinforce that. There should be nothing to fear. Thank you so much for keeping us posted; such a wonderful example of the way of kindness. j

  • tink
    tink
    you are my hero. seriously. that's all i wanted to tell you!!

    DITTO!!! bebu, you rock.

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    yes , bebu it has to be the 144,000. But they have not amended their prayers . I don't think many understand this. And yes i do remember them saying the bible was only written for 144,000 and we are like just extras that come along with them.

    I would like to see this in print though.

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    btt b/c this is a great thread

  • garybuss
    garybuss


    Bebu, When your Witness friend questions your motives she is getting you in a loop. It's called begging the question. When you get them in trouble, they will do one of three things. One, they will question your motives and divert the conversation to that subject. Two, they will question your sources and try to discredit those. Three, they will leave or simply not return.

    Your friend used both # one and two. You have her on the defensive big time. She's not gonna bend. You're gonna lose her.

    Hope I'm wrong. Thanks for the update. GaryB

  • bebu
    bebu

    Anything's possible, Gary; but I do know you'd agree that it would be wrong to say nothing, or do nothing; I am surprised at how many people are becoming ex-JWs these days. I am especially encouraged by hearing about long-time witnesses leaving. It's difficult, but not impossible. JWD is proof for that.

    I do expect her to return because we are good friends. But it might be in the future that she would not want to talk about this issue again. I will not just let her off easily. I will tell her to look up John 3:19-21, and ask her if truth needs to hide, as if it were evil:

    19

    This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light , and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

    ...Knowing her, even if she stopped wanting to talk to me, she'll have a great deal of internal trouble. So I've got faith for both the short and the long haul. Even if I have to wait another 5 years for the next conversation, I will do it!

    Some seeds take a long time to finally sprout--I hope she's earlier than that. (But then, some seeds never sprout... Who has a guarantee for anything?)

    bebu

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    Bebu,

    I think you are right, that even if you loose her temporarily, she is having lots of internal strife and will eventually return to continue the conversation.

    You asked me if I had told "my" study (I laugh at that descriptive now!) about the effect her questions and love and prayers had on me. Yes, I have. She rejoiced that I left the JWs. I told her that I believed she had prayed me out (along with two others in particular) and I thanked her for always displaying loving, Christ-like concern. In fact, when my son decided to become a Catholic, we asked her and her husband to be his godparents. We are not in close contact -- she would be disappointed, I think, that I now am pretty much an agnostic -- but it is a comfort to me that she is out there, and available to me and our son.

    I hope that gary is wrong on this one, but I do agree with his assessment that the conditioned responses have been kicking in. That is why I told you to tread very lightly this next little while.

    BTW -- Here is what "Insight on the Scriptures", Vol. 2, Page 362 has to say about:

    Those for Whom Christ Is Mediator. The apostle Paul declares that there is "one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all" -- for both Jews and Gentiles. (1 Ti 2:5,6) He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. (Heb. 8:10-13; 12:24; Eph 5:25-27) Christ became Meidator in order that the ones called "might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance" (Heb. 9:15); he assists, not the angels, but "Abraham's seed." (Heb. 2:16) He assists those who are to be brought into the new covenant to be 'adopted' into Jehovah's household of spiritual sons; these eventually will be in heaven as Christ's brothers, becoming a part with him of the seed of Abraham. (Ro 8:15-17; 23-25; Ga 3:29) He has transmitted to them the promised holy spirit, with which spirit they are sealed and are given a token of what is to come, their heavenly inheritance. (2Co 5:5, Eph 1:13,14) The total number of those who are finally and permanently seals is revealed in Revelation 7:4-8 as 144,000.

    The way Christ's Mediatorship works is further explained as follows, under the subheading:

    Blessings to Mankind in General. While Jesus' mediatorship operates solely toward those in the new covenant, he is also God's High Priest and the Seed of Abraham. In fulfilling his duties in these latter two positions, he will bring blessings to others of manking, for all the nations are to be blessed by means of Abraham's seed. Those in the new covenant are first blessed by Christ, the primary Seed (Ga 3:16, 29), being brought in as associate members of the seed. Being made kings and priests by reason of the enw covenant that he mediated, they will share in administering the blessings of Jesus' sacrifice and of his Kingdom rule to all the nations of the earth. Christ's mediatorship, having accomplished its purpose by bringing "the Israel of God" into this position, thus results in benefits and blessings to all mankind.--Ga 6:16; Gen 22:17, 18.

    There are, thus, others not of the 144,000 "sealed" ones who also pray to Jehovah God in the name of Christ, putting faith in the merit of his ransom sacrifice. This sacrifice is not only for those for whom Jesus mediates the new convenant but also for all mankind expressing faith in Christ. (1Jo 2:2) These not in the new covenant also appreciate that "there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved. (Ac 4:12) Funny, then, how the WTS has appropriated the "faithful and discreet slave class" 'name' which must be obeyed for salvation. They, too, look to Jesus Christ as their great heavenly High Priest, through whom they can approach God and through whose ministration they can get forgiveness of sin. (Heb 4:14-16) How much you wanna bet they look at Jesus Christ as their Mediator? Revelation 21:22-24 points out that 'the nations will walk in the light of New Jerusalem,' where Jehovah God is the light and the Lamb Jesus Christ is the lamp.

    I'm aware that you are aware of this, bebu, but there may be others who can benefit from at least knowing how the Watchtower explains this piece of unique Christian theology.

    Regards,

    outnfree

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit