by Sea Breeze 128 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The key to understanding which interpretation is correct is what VH touched on - does the soul die or not?
Because it can't be the body that goes to a fiery hell. Yet Ezekiel 18:20 plainly states that the sinful soul will die. This verse alone throws a monkey wrench into the discussion bc if we're interpreting verses as literal then this verse presents a problem to the claim that souls don't die.
@Halcon
The problem is that Watchtower and the secular world in general think that the term “death” means not functioning…. Lake a dead battery.
However, in biblical theology pertaining to man, the correct definition means “separation” as is defined in Websters 1828 dictionary.
So, Ez. 18:4 is correct. The soul that is sinning will be separated from its body.
Breeze
I'll follow your line of explanation then. So when I die my soul will separate from my body. If I'm condemned to hell, it's my soul that will go to hell (and my physical body will turn to dust).
Is my body then regenerated in hell so as to physically feel the pain of fire burning me? But then Satan and the demons in hell are now physical beings too? How else are we to physically experience pain otherwise unless we get a new body?
Yes God will torment body and soul in the hell of the Pharisees. Remember Dives tongue could have a wee bit of relief from a few drops of water. Right now there are thousands of millions pleading for drops of water as we speak...all, no doubt to the glory of Satan... because God wants no one to be tormented eternally, but is obviously powerless to do anything about the situation.
Who is turning up the heat I wonder?
I always wondered why John Calvin sought to rescue Michael Servetus from half an hour of the intense pain of being burned alive at the stake...when he was sending him off to an eternity of the same. I guess John was more merciful than God and Satan or whoever created this imaginary place of torment.
And if God wants no one to be tormented eternally, how come his Faithful children under the alter are crying out in revenge for more heat to be applied?
Gentlemen
Is Satan literal?
Is Satan the dragon?
Is the dragon literal?
Eternal punishment is literal in the sense that eternal Judgment is literal.
Witnesses, Adventists, Age to Come/Restitution Believers, do not believe hell is symbolic. They all believe it is literal. They believe it is the grave; the word Sheol (שְׁאוֹל) encompasses the grave, especially of all the dead, a place of unconsciousness. This is within the scholarly definition of the word. Those who believe in a fiery punishment try to extend the definition to a place of consciousness. This is contrary to Biblical usage which has it the abode of all dead, righteous and unrighteous.
The New Testament uses Hades as an equivalent to Sheol. It suggests in Acts 2:26-36 that resurrection to life is out of the grave, not from a fiery hell or from heaven. This is also the thought of John 5:25-30 which has the dead, righteous and unrighteous come out of their graves.
@ Vienne
Excellent response!
Even Martha knew when she would see her brother again.
"I know I will see him in Abraham's Bosom when I die", she said,
"Go to the top of the class Martha!", the Pharisees responded.
@Sea Breeze
<< Ez. 18:4 is correct. "The soul that is sinning will be separated from its body." (The New SeaBreeze Translation>>
(ASV) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
(DRB) Behold all souls are mine: as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, the same shall die.
(GNB) The life of every person belongs to me, the life of the parent as well as that of the child. The person who sins is the one who will die.
(KJV) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
(KJV+) Behold,H2005 allH3605 soulsH5315 are mine; as the soulH5315 of the father,H1 so also the soulH5315 of the sonH1121 is mine: the soulH5315 that sinneth,H2398 itH1931 shall die.H4191
(KJVA) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
(LITV) Behold, they are all My souls. As the soul of the father, also the soul of the son, they are Mine. The soul that sins, it shall die.
(MKJV) Behold, all souls are Mine. As the soul of the father, also the soul of the son, they are Mine. The soul that sins, it shall die.
(YLT) Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son—they are Mine, The soul that is sinning—it doth die.
So, why do JWs believe that hell is not what the Jesus, the apostles and the hearers of the apostles (church fathers) taught it was?
Did someone answer and I missed it? Just asking…🤔
Ttwsyf
I believe the JWs don't believe in a physical literally burning hell of torture due to scriptures like Ezekiel 18:4 which states that the soul that sins will die.
It follows that if the sinful soul dies, it can't also stay alive at the same time, neither in heaven or hell.
But assuming Jesus really meant that the soul doesn't die, which would be contradicting, and is condemned to hell...does that mean that the soul is furnished a brand new physical body with the explicit purpose of torturing it eternally?
