Did you ever believe that NDE's were DEMONIC?

by DebraDoll 23 Replies latest jw experiences

  • zen nudist
    zen nudist

    in 1999, on a business trip to KC, I brought a book on OBE by a NASA scientist who claimed to have mastered them to a degree.... his accounts were facintating and he had excersizes in the book to try it...so I did... after 2 weeks I suddenly got a partial out of body experience.... I suddenly had 2 right arms and hands at the same time and could feel both of them equally even though they were about a foot apart.... but it only lasted a few seconds. It did, however, give me a MATRIX like revelation.... THIS is NOT the real world.

    The only world we know is made up by our own mind, This does not mean it is not true or accurate... but it does mean it is not THE REAL WORLD and may not be accurate.

    Here is how it works.... our mind invents the only world we know from a data source which if accurate is a stream of electrical pulses coming from bio-mechanical transducers which convert one form of energy into another... eyes seems to translate light into electrical pulses, ears do it for sound, skin does it for touch, temp. and pressure. etc... but all of these convert the original source into different frequencies of electricity and those frequencies are some how turned into the world we know and are some how mapped out.

    A well known phenomenon called the Phantom limb effect happens because a missing limb in the "real" world has not altered the mapping of where it should be in the mind maker.... the map seems to grow less and less changeable or plastic with age... if you lose a limb early on, chances are the mindmap will be absorbed for other uses... but after a certain age the map stays intact and activations of the map are FELT in the location of where the limb should be relative to the body.... take this a step further and when you cut off the world as in sleep you get a phantom world, a dream world where activations in the map are read as real by comparison to queit sense data... now if you follow all that, the OBE is part of the continuum between a day world and dream world, closer to the day world... the map data is not as random and not as shifting and so seems just as real as the day world... what explains the feeling of being seperated from the body? while dreaming you are not feeling your sensory body at all, you are in a dream body moving freely about... but in OBE, you still are close to being awake and you still sense your body... and your dream body at the same time....two bodies.

    It also made me aware of another MATRIX like fact... I have no way to tell the source of either world... THIS world seems like it is from THE REAL WORLD, but is it? could this world be from a computer pumping info into me which is not like reality at all? could this world be, as I have come to believe, a shared hallucination made stable by many minds sharing data?

    Materialists assume that matter and energy generate mind...but we have only the evidence that mind generates matter and energy as symbols within it! there is really NO evidence that it works the other way around and no one has ever shown any way that matter or energy could generate consciousness. No matter how complex a computer ever gets, it will still be shoving 1s and 0s around circuits and there is no indication that doing this will ever allow any circuit to FEEL or see or hear...etc... we have computers which can descriminate between visual inputs but no indication that there is any part of them that is SEEING in order to do this. we even have what is called blind sight where part of a persons brain seems able to take visual signals and descriminate but not allow the person to consciously see what is being done...consciousness is not a requirement for a computer to operate and simulate a wide variety of things we do...but one thing that a computer lacks is a self interested caring because of being AWARE that what it does might cause it to FEEL pain or pleasure.

    being out of body may infact be just as real as being in apparent body, since in BOTH cases one is NOT in his true body which may be completely other than either... I realized that reincarnation is possible because we are only symbolically interacting with each other, you never see the REAL me, only your symbol of me... and when my symbol appears dead to you, that does not mean in any way that I am dead... no more than I would be if I stopped using a game token and instead found a new one to play with.

    Of course JWs have no souls and this talk to them is completely from the demonic...but they do believe in spirit beings and my belief is that we are really that, not this as we appear to each other.

  • Panda
    Panda

    DebraDoll, I started college in 92 and finished in97. My major was history, however I had equal credits in anthropology, and advanced language strudies was close behind. I had way more credits than I needed because I didn't change to history until the second half of the second year. Previously I was in engineering but I saw a long long road ahead, so since I love history I moved over to the liberal arts. I did post graduate work in China, for parts of 3 years. I loved the university there and my many new friends, some who have visited us here in Texas. Your partner sounds to be in very serious shape. Is he/she going to some therapy? That really helps. I know it and college saved my life, got me out of the borg and freed me in all ways.

    I grew up and got married just south of you in NJ.But I wasn't a dub in the 60s. I was 22 in '78 when I got baptized, I really fell for it, hard. Right now I am so darn glad to be away from the WTS and the small minded people and male dominated congregations. You know something, I finally felt good, really good about myself, almost as if I'd never taken a full breath of fresh air, so my lungs got full and here I am. I love this forum and themany good postings and posters.

    Hey, don't forget to sign up for my Christmas card list. Panda

  • DebraDoll
    DebraDoll

    Panda-What an inspiration your are to me! This last final stretch is endless it seems and I am so close and so very tired! My partner sufferes continuous cycles of depression and success sabotage. He is in long term recovery from drugs and alcohol but the anxiety and inadequacy attacks continue. Although those instances are not happening to me personally, they do affect me. However he very educated (Jamaican heritage, grew up and schooled in London-their K-3 is equivalent to our 5-6 grade education to start!) and at this point has NO intentions of therapy ("They can only tell me what I already know I have to do; work, don't drink, be a man"). What this does to me is to delay me by way of me stopping my journey to offer a hand of support to help him regain the place he was before each crisis. This may not sound like anymore one would do for someone they love, but the continuous few steps backwards for me inevitably occur at a critical point in my education, business venture, his birthday (imminent), holidays, etc. He is a Level-2 Supervisor at his job, attained only 4 yrs into his sobriety, something people don't normally achieve so soon in this company-he was a Manager in less than 2 yrs, a supervisor in 3, and received this promotion over 1 yr ago while-get this-OUT ON SICK LEAVE! He has much to rejoice in and yet cannot find-no let me rephrase this-WILL NOT identify the source of his agony. One minute we are moving along, progressively, so very compatible and content, financially strapped yes (while I finish school and I am in debt to everyone I know but have been for 4 yrs of college and ""SO WHAT I say, that will cahnge soon!) and BAM!; the insomnia starts, he sleeps in and I know the warning signals. He NEEDS to be in counseling-period. He is a grown man though and I cannot force him to go so right now I feel the need to step back and perhaps separate, even temporarily. I have too much respect for myself and children to enable his choice to continue being self destructive. This is a very hard position for me to consider, not that I ever enabled him, even prior to his recovery, but I have to make it NOT about him anymore in order for my own success to be undaunted, does this sound reasonable?

  • Panda
    Panda

    Debra Doll, Well, I think you have already made a decision in your relationship. I guess the best I can say is that I support your decision. And don't look back. There are a few things to consider:

    How attached are your children to your partner?

    How attached are you?

    Could you make it on your own?

    You need to play Laura Bush "If you don't go to counseling we need to separate."

    Finally, rejoice in your new knowledge and freedom. I believe the old saying "knowledge is power", did Wm Blake say that? You'll do very well. Hey, why not pack up your kids and live overseas for a few years!

    Take good care of yourself and again congratulations, I don't think I could've done college with kids... so I more than admire your stamina.

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    Interesting subject and one that brings back vivid reminders. I had a NDE when I was about eighteen and still an active JW, though beset "with doubts and lots of questions". This experience forever changed my life and from that point forward, I never once thought it was from the demons. Way too beautiful. Way too significant.

    After attempting to discuss it with my JW mother, who did notice a difference about me which she even said was beautiful, I realized I could not share my heart with her. She immediate began preaching to me about how this was of demon influence, etc., and warning me not to tell anyone else or I would be labeled and/or disfellowshipped. The stigma would be more than she could handle.

    I decided that at that point in my life, I had to keep it all inside my heart. It was then that I knew there was something seriously wrong with the JW belief system--still I had a long way to go to get free from it's webs. For so long prior to that, I had learned to live with fear of demons because of the other things that had happened to me since I was a small child. That is when I truly lived in a state of confusion and fear.

    Getting myself free from all the JW dogma, and dogma about religion in general, I was able to feel comfortable and at peace with my experiences..the good stuff, and other stuff that was from the darkness of restless and confused souls still trapped here.

  • DebraDoll
    DebraDoll

    SENTINEL! THANK YOU! I just knew there was someone out there fitting the criteria I need! Does your experience still influence or affect you presently? Did you connect with groups or others who had the same experience? Any residual phenomena; psychic abilities etc? PANDA-Hell yea, I could make it on my own because I HAVE to, no ifs and or buts-we won't go there as to how his disability has played a long lasting effect on us financially and how LITTLE of his income comes into this house right now as I am in no way trying to bash him-I love him, but can't help him. He packed some things hysterically and left hoping to be "found dead." This is a common statement and although he has never tried to kill himself I don't completely or coldly ignore his cries for help, its just that he needs to REALLY want help now. If he did we would be in a counselor's office right now! I am growing weary of the same script over and over again. There is no "source" to help battle. What a dream come true for me it would be to do my final semester overseas! My best friend did it in Hawaii-her 60 credit Master's too, but only due to her husband's military career-sigh.............

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    I'm glad I can be of help.

    Does your experience still influence or affect you presently?

    Absolutely! Whatever one wishes to call it—intuition-strong feeling-psychic power--I have learned to “listen”. I accept the gift and appreciate that I can use it for good. It has helped me many times and in turn, those I love. I really don’t know how much further out it reaches. Family members and dear friends are taken back sometimes, but they do not judge me negatively. My husband has learned not to be so skeptical, and in fact has been drawn into a couple situations just by being with me.

    Did you connect with groups or others who had the same experience?

    Although at times I have openly discussed my experiences, I have not felt the need to get into group sessions or discussions. Nor do I cast my "pearls before swine", as the saying goes. I do not need validity, and feel that it is a personal experience--unique to me. I believe that other members of my family have gifts as well, but a couple are still very much JW, and others aren't open to it. There are a couple others who have opened up and we have truly found that our family tree is full of similarities in this area. Actually, I believe we all do have unique gifts. The extent to which we connect with our gift varies.

    Any residual phenomena; psychic abilities etc?

    Since removing all the dogma and labels from my life, I have learned to relax and welcome the “events”. Still, they are quite overwhelming at times, because I have no control over the situation. Three years ago, during a time of self examination and turmoil, I was “told" that I needed to "slow down and stop and sort out my life and that in sleep and meditation I would find my answers”. Perhaps it may be of significance that much of what I "hear" is in full daylight, and wherever I happen to be or whatever I am doing. I have no control. Shortly after this incident, all I wanted to do was sleep. I was not ill, but I felt as if I had this heavy weight upon me, that made me stop in my tracks. I had little appetite and I missed a week of work and this was quite odd. My husband was quite concerned and I even went to the doctor at his request, but they found nothing wrong with me. I would sleep in the day and in the night, and during the waking times, my mind was sharper than ever, and I had so much release from everything in my physical life. Things were coming together for me, and I truly felt as if I were communing with my soul. When that week was over, I was a different person.

    It was right before this occurrence that I was out at a little dollar store and had saw this beautiful ceramic angel, and although I am not one to buy such things to sit around and collect dust, but it was only one dollar, so I got it and took it home. In the middle of the night, I heard a soft sweet voice, and didn’t know where it was coming from. It woke me up by calling my name and continue to call out to me until I said "here I am". (This is how much of my experiences begin= with the calling of my name.) In the darkness, on the dresser, the angel I had purchased and put there, seemed to be visible by the moonlight from the window and I heard a voice that said: “I am Ariel. I am for you.” I was so startled by the event that I sat staring and trying to figure out what all of this meant. Thereafter, I woke my husband up. When I told him what had happened, he said that he’d been dreaming a very unusual dream about angels!! We both fell back to a very good night sleep.

    Since communing with my soul, I feel relaxed and at peace more than ever before. I realize that I am different, and although I am still many times misunderstood and overlooked as if I’m invisible, I am still trying to look for the good in all things and to show love and compassion….and to forgive myself when I don’t measure up. Sometimes all one can do is say is ah ha!! I get it!! Other things are still so far out of reach.

    Well, I have opened up more than usual. Perhaps it was meant to be that I saw this post today and decided to reply. Hope I have been somewhat helpful.

  • DebraDoll
    DebraDoll

    Sentinel, Are you comfortable sharing the events that led to your NDE? Were you in surgery/accident/illness etc? And as per your statement that you ; " feel that it is a personal experience--unique to me" I respect that, and so much more than the bravado attached to the meaning for Dannion Brinkley-he became so obsessed with the experience that he lost his wife, the one person who loved him unconditionally while he was still, hmmmm, a dick-there is no nice way to describe him. After his transformation all that was important to him was telling people about it!

  • mizpah
    mizpah

    There have been several programs in recent months that have tried to explain the scientific and medical reasons for these experiences. Of course, these scientists feel that it is the mind that is using its last defense. There are certain common threads: a person floating overhead observing the event, a long dark tunnel and a bright white light at the end of it.

    I think that people are desparate to have an answer as to what lies ahead after death. Most people that have had them usually accept the thought of death and are reassured that life continues on in another form.

  • rem
    rem

    I knew about NDE's as a witness, but I never connected them with demons. I always figured they were just the brain playing tricks on people while under great stress. Now sleep paralysis - that was another thing. As a child I believed the demons caused it and the accompanying night terrors. Now I know better.

    rem

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