Silverleaf:
I guess we can both "agree to disagree."
Mizpah, that's proabably the best course of action.
I still feel the church was corrupted as it accepted the pagan ideas. It's worthy to note that by Constantine's time pagan worship became the main influence in the church. (Constantine himself was a pagan sun worshipper.) I totally agree with you that the church leaders from this time on incorporated the pagan customs and traditions to convert the pagans of the surrounding nations. Their religious practices can still be seen in the celebration of the church's main holidays which strongly reflect the pagan's belief in the "birth of the sun" and the fertility rites. (Christmas and Easter) And it was obvious that part of the motive for converting them was for temporal power rather than for spiritual reasons.
This I agree with.
But one must separate the early beliefs and practices of the Christian church with those of later times. Early Christians sacrificed themselves rather than compromise.
And many of them martyred themselves as well. Many to add to the persecution mythos.
The early church persuaded with a message of love and compassion.
Sorry. I still disagree with this. Perhaps Gnostic Christianity did have this message, but Literalist Christians were about punishment and reward.
It was the reason that so many pagans were attracted to it.
Huh? Attracted to the church or attracted to staying alive and thus converted to save themselves being tortured into it?
It was the pagan powers that became alarmed and persecuted the early church.
Once again, nah. I absolutely do not agree with this.
As far as "fabricated stories" one must not forget that the few historical records we have ot the Celts and Druids came from pagan sources. (Greek and Roman) These pagan historians put them in very bad light speaking of human sacrifices and other practices which even shocked them. It is no wonder that the neo-pagans attempt to dismiss these accounts.
And Christians often dismiss accounts of the brutality of the early church. As I said before, all religion has a bloody history, not just Paganism and not just Christianity. To deny that is useless. What we practice today, whether we are Pagan or Christian or anything else is different from what was practiced centuries ago. If you don't want the brutality of early Christianity to color someone's perception of modern Christianity you must afford the same courtesy to Paganism.
Like you, I enjoy the mind stimulation of these discussions. But I do get concerned when the discussions degrade to name calling and belittling.
I do apologize for my tendency to become sarcastic. Circular arguments make me very frustrated. But I'm all for truly heartfelt debate.
Silverleaf
