Has anyone felt like leaving God altogether?

by lookingnow22 82 Replies latest jw friends

  • kes152
    kes152

    1. IF the Bible is true (which it's not), then this battle between Jehovah and Satan is just that--a battle between Jehovah and Satan. Humans were innocent pawns in the affairs of the supernatural. Humans were used, and because they were not supernatural, they had no control.

    Actually, the battle is NOT between Jehovah and Satan. It never was. The battle is over a heavenly kingdom that was promised to "us" the 'heirs' of which ALL MANKIND is invited to, in union with his Son, the "firstborn heir."

    The Adversary wanted that kingdom for himself, so the only way he could get a 'hold' of it, would be to DESTROY those who were already promised that kingdom, so as to SNATCH it away from them. The best way to do that would be to 'mislead' man with respects the kind of 'being' their Father is, so that he can 'gather' all mankind to "feed" his father Death. Of whom the Adversary is High Priest. humans are given a choice, life or death. The Son is life, and Death brings death, the One who will consume them alive.

    The ONLY reason this earth, the sky, plants, animals, UNIVERSE, you, I, everyone and thing here is stll here is because The Father has placed a "hedge" over ALL of it. He has appointed a time for this "heaven AND earth" to flee and when it does, it will be fed to the One who is Death, God's "last enemy." When all finally REFUSE God's hedge saying they don't want it anymore, God will remove that hedge like he did with Pharoah's son, and Death will come and consume them all. Then, Death will be "brought to nothing."

    2. The idea of putting trees in a garden to temp humans is cruel and dysfunctional. It imputes wrong motives. A moral and loving God would not do this. (To hell with the JW God-needed-to-establish-his-headship bullshit).

    You are correct, God did NOT need to establish his "headship" for such was ALREADY recognized. What was the tree of knowledge for? It wasn't for Adam, for God INTENDED to raise Adam to be just like Him, 'knowing good' and 'hating bad.' The "tree of knowledge" was for any offspring that didn't want life (disobedient offspring). They would not be permitted to eat from the tree of life, but from the tree of knowledge. Unfortunately, Adam did not want to wait for his Father to raise him, instead, he "reached out" for 'knowing good AND knowing bad' and did not think about the consequences it would bring upon him AND his offspring. He did not want to "hate bad" he wanted to 'know bad.' Thus, the very inclination of man is "bad all the time." God did not 'tempt' Adam, the Adversary did. Adam had it WELL WITHIN himself to "hate bad" and obey his Father. Instead, he took what was not his to have, yet (stealing), and thus brought sin and death to himself AND his offspring.

    3. To punish billions of human beings for the sins of one man is ludicrous. If your adult son murdered someone, would you also execute his children (your grandchildren) also? Of course not! We are individuals with individual rights and free will.

    You are correct, and God DID not punish billions of humans for ONE man's sin. God has set a day, and time in which he WILL punish those who sinned against him and his Son. He also has set a time to give to each one "according to his deeds." Those who did not WANT forgiveness (like the Pharisees) will not get it. They will get exactly what they ask for, "death." For "anything you ask for in my name, I will do this." Those who want life, will get life. Those who WANT death, will get death.

    4. IF God is love, then where the hell is He when so many people are suffering so terribly? Where is he for the little girl or boy who is sexually assaulted or raped? Where the hell is he when a parent loses a child to some disease; or a child loses a parent? (I could go on, and damn it, I think I will!)

    He says to give you:

    Psalms 4:4
    John 9:1-3
    Romans 11:32

    5. Where the hell is God when the tears of pain stream down one's cheeks, begging and imploring Him for some comfort and a way out of some terrible situation?

    Psalms 34:18

    6. Where the hell is God when the little girl is raped in front of her mother in Sierra Leone, and then has her forearms chopped off?

    Isaiah 1:24

    7. What excuse is there for God telling Moses to kill all the little Medianite boys, fathers, mothers, sisters, and any girl or woman who wasn't a virgin, only to become a sex slave to the Israelites? Why, the human Israelites had more compassion than did God, because at first, they wouldn't do it! (Read "Atrocities of the Bible" at TruthQuest)

    Num. 25:17, 18 The Father was repaying the wicked treatment that fell upon the Israelites DUE TO the Midianites. An "eye for eye" thing.

    8. There is no excuse for God to allow human suffering and death, simply because he can "undo" it and make it as if it never happened (even more JW bullshit). Such a God is morally reprehensible and owes any sentient being an explanation (just before He is executed for crimes against humanity).

    Perhaps you didn't know this, but Humans suffer because they WANT to suffer. They don't want to belong to Christ, they want to belong to 'another.' That 'owner' they have that let's you do whatever your corruptible flesh craves, is responsible for humans suffering and dying. God takes care of His 'own.' The 'other' does not care for his 'own.'

    May you have peace,
    Aaron

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    Has anyone felt like leaving God altogether?

    Nope!!!

    Ven

  • esther
    esther

    I still believe in God, but not that the bible is his word. I cannot reconcile the God of the NT with the God of the OT. In fact, I can't even reconcile all of the NT. To me, the apostle Paul sounds very much like the WTBTS. So where does that leave us? I don't know what to believe any more, but whatever I do, I am not going to be led blindly.
    esther

  • COMF
    COMF

    Yes, I did leave God. It came after 12 years in the organization, 11 of which consisted of increasing misery compounded on previous misery. All through it I prayed earnestly to Jehovah, every way that I could think of, every way that they said was right, asking just for wisdom, understanding, strength and faith. Finally, it got to the point that I had to leave in order to preserve my sanity and the shreds of my dignity.

    I still believed in Jehovah, still believed that was the true religion. I just figured he didn't like me, for some reason that was beyond my ability to find and correct. So finally I just said, in effect, "Okay, Jehovah, I've had it. You don't want me; fine, I'm leaving. You leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone." So I tendered my disassociation letter and left.

    With that load of emotional baggage, it didn't take me long to become an alcoholic. I drank to anesthetize myself enough to be able to deal with day-to-day life.

    After about 8 or 9 years of that, I caused a car wreck one night while drunk: the other guy and I were both going about 70 mph, and we hit head-on. The seatbelt that saved my life took all the skin off my shoulder and side, and ruptured 14 inches of intestine which had to be removed in emergency surgery. The other guy had a few broken bones, but we both lived (it turned out he had been drinking, too, but the wreck was my fault).

    After I recovered from surgery, I was put on probation by the court on condition that I attend a five-month in-house substance abuse treatment program. It turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. They taught us life skills that I was lacking. Things like how to recognize bad thinking habits and change them. How to set goals and then actually attain them. How to examine a problem and reason your way methodically through it. And the most important lesson I have ever learned: how to assume responsibility for your own emotions, thinking and actions, and absolve yourself of responsibility for anyone else's.

    Armed with those tools for success, I came back into the world, where shortly I discovered Hourglass2 Outpost, a forum like this one. At this time, understand, I still believed that JWs were the true religion.

    Well, it took me about six months of reading and debating on H2O to realize and admit that the organization was not what I thought it was. It took some more time after that for me to comprehend that it wasn't just innocent misguided errors, but a deliberate and ongoing scam. It was some time after that that I put the connection with the blood issue to it, and realized that they were knowingly, intentionally sending people to their deaths in order to perpetuate their scam.

    After I accepted that they were not the true religion, I immediately cast around, looking for it. I still felt that there must be one that was right, and the others all wrong. There must be one that had the correct doctrines combined with the correct hierarchy of authority combined with the correct behavior and fruits.

    So I looked for another religion that didn't believe the trinity, didn't believe in hell, didn't believe in an immortal soul, and understood the nature of Jesus' sacrifice and the resurrection.

    Didn't find one.

    Lee Elder, known then as The Liberal Elder, was trying to organize a loose group of believers into some semblance of a study group at the time, and I looked in on it; but he was willing to accept trinitarians, and was borrowing some of the wording for his declaration of purpose straight from the Unitarians; the wording was a reference to Wicca, which at that time still disturbed me. But, Lee's group got me to thinking that maybe I would have to expand my own field of vision to the point of tolerating radical differences of belief. I decided to try accepting trinitarians, even though the whole idea flew in the face of the ransom as I understood it.

    I didn't find any particular satisfaction in doing this, but I did learn something about widening out. So I widened out a little farther, and decided to give consideration to non-Christian religions, for the first time in my life.

    I read up on Taoism a bit, and considered various people's suggestions for reading from the "new age" bookshelves. And then one day, in frustration with it all, I decided that I wanted to look into wicca, thinking that maybe an earth-centered religion would bring the peace that I wasn't finding with heaven-centered religions, since I am an earth-person.

    So, I went to the bookstore and I spent several hours in the wiccan section, reading and looking through books. Books on spells. Books on how and when to do things like cure warts and make people fall in love with you. How to cast protective circles to keep evil spirits away. Potions and charms and... and... and...

    ...and the most pathetic superstitious nonsense I'd ever seen in my life. It was astounding, what people were willing to believe! Walk a certain way, at a certain time, holding a certain collection of items, speaking certain words, and you have control over an aspect of the universe. Really? By what law? Who set up this law? Who enforces it? Why should it be, that the absence of a certain item in my medicine pouch would nullify my power? Who said so? Who flips the switch to make it work or not work based on that?

    I had an epiphany there, that evening, in the wiccan section of Hastings. I saw, in the wiccan way of life, the pagan mirror image of the superstition and fear of the unknown that are such an integral part of Christianity. And suddenly I realized that it was all the same; it was bullshit, every last bit of it... the wiccan spells and potions, the Christian guilt-trip-deluxe, the Jewish list of rules for everything and then some, and all the other religions that purport to have the right way to live. Just nothing, nothing at all, but bullshit. Bullshit that had been perpetrated upon poor unsuspecting, uneducated, gullible mankind for ages and ages.

    I walked out of that store a free man for the first time, knowing that it's all up to me. My self-worth, my will to live, my serenity, my success, my peace of mind: I am the source of it all. I can give, or I can hold it back from myself; but either way, I'm the only source I will ever get it from.

    How incredibly liberating! Ah, life is good! Come and live it!

    COMF

  • bajarama
    bajarama

    Questions I would like to ask God? Why? How could you? Have you ever sought professional help? Are you still on the medication the doctor prescribed? Did you know that prozac now comes in a suppository form? Did the shock therapy help? God, I want you to know I'm always here listen if you need to talk.

    What a wicked game you play.

  • kes152
    kes152

    esther,

    you can still go to the Son, the beloved One of the Father. He is not like Paul, nor is he like the WTBTS.

    He has a very light load and he is very humble in heart. He loves to "be the one serving" as opposed to "the one being served." Actually the Father and the Son are like that.

    The Son of God is the one we go to for everything. He is the everlasting life that was with the Father in the beginning. That life was later made manifest to us in the flesh, and now in the spirit.

    1 John 1:1, 2

    He has never changed, we did. He talked to people before through holy spirit, and he still does the same thing today. He has not changed. The Bible was provided for a written 'basis' that what we are 'hearing' through holy spirit is actually him, the Light and not an imposter (a.k.a. an 'angel of the light').

    He promised, "Anything you ask ME in my name I will do this." (Check your Greek John 14:13, 14). JWs refuse to ask Christ, in the name of Christ. Although he plainly said we must ask HIM in the name of him.

    Ask for the 'living water' that you may 'drink' holy spirit and "hear" the one that speaks to us from the heavens.

    Hebrews 12:25

    Regards,
    Aaron

  • patio34
    patio34

    I agree with AlanF that the question is worded wrong. How can you 'leave' the tooth fairy?

    In my 28 yrs as a JW i always squelched my disbelief in a God because I really wanted to 'do the right thing.' I wondered at how could some of the JWs really believe so easily. I read and re-read the books on evolution and creation regularly trying to squelch my 'unbelief.'

    Finally, it all came together for me and I decided that my disbelief was correct and left, not God, but the WTBS. To me, God was never there.

    FreePeace, I certainly understand the anger in your post. How COULD there be a God with all the egregious things that go on? Humans could not stand to watch it and do nothing to help, how could a 'better' being?

    Kes, your posts are like reading the Watchtower. No thank you.

    There are many other posts pointing out all the inconsistencies and cruelties in the Bible which give the lie to its being divinely inspired.

    Pat

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Captn Comf,

    'Bullshit' about sums up the entire history of religious enterprise, ever since man started recording his fearful superstitions. It all stinks of self delusion and wishes.

    Having come to the same conclusion as respects religon et al, it has not changed my belief in a creator or God Almighty. Maybe it is simply a hold over from my early indoctrination, or simply a childish need for some answers, I still can pray.

    May sound simplistic, but one concept has always provided me the material for keeping or holding a belief in God. That one thought is based on the word 'infinity'. The concept of unbounded time and space is the kicker. For me, it is not much of a strech from this unexplainable concept...to allow for a personage who has and always will be around. I know this is a very narrow view of a very complex idea, but no one has been able to offer any substantive reason for thinking otherwise.

    Enjoyed your story of self discovery. Thanks for sharing this very personal insight. It does open the door for more to share.

    Regards

    Danny

  • Flip
    Flip
    …it was bullshit, every last bit of it... the wiccan spells and potions, the Christian guilt-trip-deluxe, the Jewish list of rules for everything and then some, and all the other religions that purport to have the right way to live. Just nothing, nothing at all, but bullshit. Bullshit that had been perpetrated upon poor unsuspecting, uneducated, gullible mankind for ages and ages.

    COMF your comments sound eerily familiar with what I understand Chuck T. Russell was trying to express over a hundred years ago when he helped develop a rudimentary antithesis of corporate religious thinking for his day.

    Chuck simply neglected to apply his own epiphany to himself and his publications, which mean his thought processes were tainted from the very beginning and his little magazine instantly, became the very thing it argued against.

    By then the money must have begun to flow in a positively demonstrative stream and no one in the organization had the guts to speak the truth and turn off the tap.

    So here we are.

    Flip

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Lookingnow, it may be that whether you have "left God" is not the question, but it may be that your concept of God would change, just as a person's self concept can change when leaving the organization. I would say that in both cases going beyond ego may be your answer.

    When you read the replies, how much of it is the person's own issues? Now I will say this, having been JWs that is perfectly understandable. But if you extend your feeling about the concept of God (of course, for many they think that's the same as God, even though they don't believe in God anymore..) that we were taught to believe in to all religion, (some of which doesn't even teach that there is a God) that just doesn't work. If you think God doesn't exist, then you can't actually leave God, all you can say is I no longer believe in this idea which I refer to by the word God. How can you leave something or someone that never existed in the first place?

    I personally see room to still make use of the word God on occassion, but of course that depends on who I'm talking to. If their understanding of the word is so dramatically different then it becomes meaningless. In a way, I don't think the belief is really that important, and certainly not the most important thing. I think by working on bettering themselves (not to be confused with ego) everyone can have some kind of spirituality in their lives, whether they choose to use that word or not. For myself, I will say that I am not going to let this experience with the JWs ruin my life. Yes, I can't change the fact that it did happen, but I'm not going to judge the beliefs of others (or other people) based on the fact that I had a bad experience. (or the fact that I was taught to be judgemental) If I do that then I'm not much better off than JWs. I may believe differently, but I wouldn't be a better person.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit