Any of you getting bored of reading this sorta stuff?

by ignored_one 23 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  talesin

  Scooby

  I understand where you're coming from.

  Here's my reasons for being grossed out (no disrespect to you, just 'splainin my POV), 'food for thought', so to speak.

  When folks need a house, does the congregation get together and help them build it? Well, maybe if you're part of the 'popular' group, but not likely.

  Is this a PR tactic to show only the 'best', while 'christian love' is, as we know, conditional?

  Are girls/boys safe at assemblies, conventions and other gatherings (such as KH building parties), when there are people failing to report child molesters? (I refer to Scully's post which follows)

  If you watched The Fifth Estate, the report included the experience of Mike Moss who was sexually assaulted by Peter Gavin for the first time at a motel they and four other "brothers" were staying at during a Quick Build.

  It must be discouraging for you to hear these negative comments. Some of my only good memories of the KH were of these types of gatherings (ie., fixing up the old KH, building a new one), so I understand where you're coming from. I'm sorry it's hurtful to you. I know I would have found these attitudes hard to swallow at one time.

  As one who has been 'out' for a long time, my perspective is negative towards the organization; however, I still remember many of the 'brothers and sisters' who were truly kind and participated in these activities. I mean no disrespect to these individuals when I criticize the BOrg.

  I hope my questions will be thought-provoking for you.

  take care,

  tal
• 

  Dawn

  I dont' have anything against the quick builds - but why aren't JW's willing to dontate some of their time to building houses for habitat for humanity? I understand the need for Kingdom Halls to replace the older ones - but what about the need of the poor?

  When Jesus walked the earth he did two things - he preached a message of hope, and he took care of people. He fed them, healed them, etc. The JW's are proud that they preach a message of hope - but they have completely dropped the ball on the second part of Jesus' "ministry". I find that many christian churches are preaching a message of hope to their community while at the same time performing charitable activities.

  I told my mother about a goal I had for a certain charity - she didn't think that was so important, her response to me was "you can't save them all". So I just answered her "no, but I might make the difference to one and that's enough". There was a time when I was completely destitute, if it had not been for christian charities my son would not have had food to eat or a coat to wear. I'm glad someone people out there were willing to share to make a difference to "just one" - because it definately made the difference.
• 

  ScoobySnax

  Hmmm..... thanks Tal.

  If the information was posted as an only incident of a quick build where something awful might have happened, or even where incidences have happened. I would be the first one to say how awful that was, and should not ever happen again, not on a quick build, not in a Kingdom hall, not in a circuit, not in a district, not anywhere, not anyhow. No excuses. It has however happened, amongst almost 16 million (memorial attendance, occasional attendances) it has happened many times, none of these instances where it has been excusable. Not one. I really and truly believe the Organisation needs to re-dress the 2 witness rule, that is my personal opinion, so as not one more will be put at risk of being abused. I know this leaves the ones who have with little comfort. My heart goes out to them.

  I cannot however condemn the whole JW movement as a whole in such blase terms as some do here, I find it ignorant, narrow minded and stupid, to trash the reputation of a whole group. This forum sometimes becomes a breeding ground for mis-information, half truths and outright paranoia against JWs, who on the whole are a good people, supported by an Organisation who provide good scriptural truths from a Biblical direction. I don't claim to be an advocate in the least, just an observer.

  Scoob
• 

  Guest 77

  This is old news, I'm waiting to hear that a hall was built in a day!

  Guest 77
• 

  larc

  Scooby, do you have any comments on Dawn's comments, re: Habitat for Humanity?
• 

  ScoobySnax

  I guess Larc, it boils down to doing the "christian" thing in actually physically helping someone or some people. I work as a nurse manager on a busy acute surgical ward, and of course I don't do it voluntarily, neither do I walk round with a big JW sticker on my head. I chose this career because I want to help people back to health as far as that may be. Sometimes you fail and are not able to, because that person is too sick and ill, those times and like any other good nurse, you are able to just be there, hold a hand, or just listen. Like Dawn said, even one can make the difference.

  As far as Jehovah's Witnesses as a group are concerned, the quick builds are of course only a small part of what they do, yet something that does indeed garner alot of media attention due to the sheer speed at which a KH is completed. This however does not diminish from there primary responsibility of preaching the good news, you like many here will know the scripture from Matthew off by heart. So many times I have seen acts of kindess from Witnesses to my mum when she was both active and inactive and to other members of my family including myself. I am confident without having to read it in the pages of the WT or Awake, that this occurs the world over, aside from the preaching work. I have watched Witnesses visit those of their own faith on my own ward, bringing physical and spiritual comfort, and offer that help to patients close by. One old lady on the ward who was bedded next to a Witness patient and had no-one to visit her, remarked how loving it was for people of the JW faith to visit her neighbour. The very next day, the witnesses were there with food gifts and basic toiletries for her too. I slunk in the background, not saying who I was, but I saw. It made all the difference to the old lady with no visitors, and it made my heart glad too.

  It isn't exclusive to JWs I'm sure, but its there the same.
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Scoob, I think an operative term here would be preponderance of evidence. I think most posters here would agree with me that it would be a wonderful thing if these "human interest" PR stories somehow reflected the idyllic world of the Dub - if there was no corruption lurking beneath the surface.

  But they don't.

  We would wax euphoric over the marvellous architecture and parklike setting of a neighborhood and never reveal that the "neighborhood" is in reality a cemetary. Nice lawns. Nice buildings. Let's not focus on the decomposing corpses.

  Likewise the wonderful good works of the JW quickbuilds. Lots of JWs get together and donate their skill and time and sweat to add to the real estate holding of the WTS. The point was made that this "quickbuild technology" is NEVER used to benefit a destitute member of the community who is not a JW, and probably never used to benefit any destitute members of the lowly rank and file JWs.

  It could be otherwise.

  The time and the talent belong to the individual workers, but the WTS maintains control of those resources. Control of the individual minds that could do wonderful things.

  If the brothers and sisters aren't working on a quickbuild for the WTS, they're supposed to be distributing WTS literature, not losing focus and thinking for a minute that an individual means anything at all. The individual means nothing to Jehovah's organization. They are drones who exist to servethe Borg.

  Acknowledging the individual is "creature worship," and they don't worship creatures, they worship the organization.
• 

  ScoobySnax

  Nathan, I think the operative term here would be another word, ......and of course most posters will agree with you, lets not forget after all where we are posting, but anyway.....

  You totally miss the point in your answer to my post, It wasn't about the human interest stories of quick builds as I pointed out, I did say that they do garnish media interest, but I did emphasise that this is not the primary object or purpose of JWs. I was however, answering a question from a previous poster to the thread, I believe I was asked how I felt about what Dawn had posted. Please read the post again and my answer.

  To raise a point with you however I will say this. In your efforts like some here, so busy are you in your efforts to discredit the WT or JWs that you will throw a comment or something along the lines of..."drones who exist to serve the Borg", the same old line. I've read and re-read your post, and to me it is confused, at best in-coherent. Your main point seems to be that the QB's are done never to serve the "destitute members of the JWs", but seem quickly to dismiss that it is these very ones that have built it in the first place.

  You say it could be otherwise. How Nathan? You say the brothers and sisters are as individuals, nothing to Jehovahs organisation.....how did you come up with that conclusion? "They are drones that exist to serve the Borg"....... this silly statement pisses me off the most. I think for all your long statements you speak bull. Explain what you mean, but try and cut out the rhetoric.

  Preponderance of Evidence? ....what?
• 

  Maverick

  Part of your cut and paste covered over the child abuse part so I can't comment on that. But for the other question. Yes I get sick of hearing the rhetoric on how wonderful the quick builds are. I've worked on them. And as a specialty contractor I hated it! My tools turned up missing, total ding-dongs walked around all puffed up because they were "in-charge" and didn't know which end of a hammer to hold! For the young in was "check out the other sex" time. And for most everyone it was let's eat...free food! If you did a manpowwer, time and efficiency study on a quick build you would find it is a good thing nobody gets paid. It would cost more to build than a commercial construction project of equal size. Lots of wasted material and things that have to be done over. What saves them is the shear numbers of people and a few very competent people with a lot of experience! Maverick
• 

  rocketman

  Dawn, excellent post!

  Maverick - interesting insight from the standpoint of someone in construction.