by kj 14 Replies latest jw experiences
I read this quote in a WT publication, but now I can't find it. It basically said that in order to be a JW you must agree with ALL of what the society teaches. You cannot disagree with any of it. Is this ringing a bell with anyone? If you can tell me where to find it, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thanks a bunch, you guys rock :-)
kj
I recognized this right away.... I have it saved in my WT Library as a favorite.
***
w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***Approved association with Jehovah?s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah?s Witnesses.
Edited to add: I hate how this is worded. They say "true teachings of the Bible" but we really know they mean "any teaching of the FDS." That careful wording makes it much more difficult to use when talking to dubs....
That is EXACTLY the one I was looking for! Thanks, I'm going to bookmark it.
kj
Hi KJ, here's something else you might find worthwhile:
In 1954 in Scotland the Jehovah's Witnesses sued the Ministries of Labour and National Services. This was a test case brought by the Society to set a precedent for future Witnesses.The complete record of this trial is available to anyone for the price of the microfilm. It is the invaluable testimony given by the leaders of the Society. They make admissions in court that they would not make anywhere else. The attorneys for the Government have done their homework very well an elicited statements that give a true picture into the workings of the Watchtower Society, and the psychology of the Witnesses. Those who testified for the Society were Fred Franz, the Vice-President; H.C.Covington, the head legal counsel of the Society at that time; Grant Suiter, the Secretary-Treasurer of the Society; A.R.Hughes, the British Branch Servant; and D. Walsh, the Congregation Servant who brought the suit. Just a few quotations appear in these notes, those covering interesting statements.
During the trial Fred Franz, Vice-President of the Society, gave the following answers:
Q. Who is responsible for the interpretation in case of doubt, or in general, of scriptural writings for the guidance of Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. We believe that Jehovah God who is author and inspirer of the Bible is he one who makes the interpretations. he is his own interpreter. He does this by the use of his invisible active force, the Holy Spirit acting upon the mind of his witnesses upon this earth, and he causes events to come to pass in the earth which are in fulfillment of his prophetic word and which, therefore, throw light upon the true significance of his word.
Q. That is very helpful, but it does not quite meet the point I was making. What I want you to tell me was whether you can say how the Biblical texts are authoritatively interpreted: who is the interpreter?
A. Jehovah God is the interpreter, but he guides his people upon this earth, and in this case the editorial committee of the Society, they study the Scriptures continually, and they examine and re-examine the evidence as it appears, and under this Divine guidance with the help of the Holy Spirit they arrive at an understanding of the Scripture.
Grant Suiter gave the following testimony at the trial.
Q. Indeed can any person...have an understanding of the Scriptures apart from the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. No.
Q. Only by the publications can he have a right understaning of the Scriptures?
A. That is right.
Q. Is that not arrogance?
A. No.
Mr. H.C.Covington, the head legal counsel of the Society at that time have the following testimony.
A. I agree to that.
Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses.
A. That is correct.
Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that the prophecy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous, and somebody starts on his own trying to put his idea across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching together. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.
Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the government body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.
Q. A unity based upon a forced acceptance of false prophecy?
A. That is conceded to be true.
Q. And the person who expressed this view, as you say, that it was wrong and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptised?
A. That is correct.
Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think....
Q. Would you answer yes or no?
A. I will answer yes unhesitatingly.
Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.
Q. Do you call that Christianity?
A. I certainly do.
Mr. Covington also gave the following testimony.
Mr. Fred Franz gave the following testimony at the trial.
Wow, that is interesting. How do I get a hold of this transcript? Who do I contact?
kj
Wow, that is interesting. How do I get a hold of this transcript? Who do I contact?
I'm not really sure where NN got his information from but would also like to know. I do rememeber reading this in COC. You can order Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz off amazon or maybe a link on this site? I highly recomend reading it!
Kate
I have read C of C. It is an awesome book, a real eye opener. I saw the transcript in the the book, and I had wondered if it would be possible to get an official copy of it.
kj
From: http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/verify_not.htm
*** QUALIFIED 1955 p.156 ***
[Digital version of this book available for purchase]
5 The first essential for study is the right condition of mind and heart, appreciating that Jehovah grants understanding only to the meek, and not to the stiff-necked. If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the Bible says, 'believe all things,' all the things that The Watchtower brings out, inasmuch as it has been faithful in giving us a knowledge of God's purposes and guiding us in the way of peace, safety and truth from its inception to this present day.
[Emphasis Added]
*** Watchtower 1957 May 1 p.284 Trust Your Proved, Faithful Brothers ***
We will realize that Jehovah knows what is going on in his organization, and if he is willing to permit it, who are we to insist it should be different? If we really have faith, we will know that if it is wrong he will straighten it out eventually, and we are far safer inside his organization even with these minor difficulties than we would be on the outside where only chaos and destruction await us.
[Emphasis Added]
*** Watchtower 1967 June 1 p.338 Move Ahead with Jehovah's Organization ***
12 How will we put these four things into effect? First, study: We may think of study as hard work, as involving heavy research. But in Jehovah's organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to do that very thing, to help you who do not have so much time for this, these preparing the good material in The Watchtower and other publications of the Society. But you do not study enough? Take this suggestion: Often the very best and most beneficial studying you do is that done when you read a new Watchtower or Awake! or a new book with the joy of getting the new truths and a fresh view.
*** Watchtower 1973 August 1 p.460 Cultivating Friendship with God ***
14 Yes, we should be deeply appreciative of all the fine spiritual food that "the faithful and discreet slave" class has been providing through The Watchtower, now for ninety-four years.
** Watchtower 1981 February 15 p.19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***
OUR VIEW OF THE "SLAVE"
[…] Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using.
*** Watchtower 1983 January 15 p.22 Exposing the Devil's Subtle Designs ***
Avoid Independent Thinking
20 From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question God's way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking. 'You can decide for yourself what is good and bad,' Satan told Eve. 'You don't have to listen to God. He is not really telling you the truth.' (Genesis 3:1-5) To this day, it has been Satan's subtle design to infect God's people with this type of thinking.-2 Timothy 3:1, 13.
21 How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. For example, God's organization has from time to time given warnings about listening to certain types of immoral and suggestive music, and about frequenting discos and other types of worldly dance halls where such music is played and people are known to engage in immoral conduct. (1 Corinthians 15:33) Yet certain ones have professed to know better. They have rebelled against such counsel and have done what is right in their own eyes. With what result? Very often they have become involved in sexual immorality and have suffered severe spiritual harm. But even if they have not been so affected, are they not reprehensible if others follow their example and suffer bad consequences?-Matthew 18:6.
22 This fact cannot be overemphasized: We are in a war with superhuman foes, and we constantly need to be aware of this. Satan and his demons are real; they are not mere figments of the imagination. They are "the world rulers of this darkness," and we have a spiritual fight against them. (Ephesians 6:12) It is absolutely vital that we recognize their subtle designs and not allow ourselves to be overreached by them. Very appropriately, then, we will next consider how we can arm ourselves to fight against these wicked spirits.
*** Watchtower 1983 January 15 p.27 Armed for the Fight Against Wicked Spirits ***
Fight Against Independent Thinking
19 As we study the Bible we learn that Jehovah has always guided his servants in an organized way. And just as in the first century there was only one true Christian organization, so today Jehovah is using only one organization. (Ephesians 4:4, 5; Matthew 24:45-47) Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe." This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous?
20 Such thinking is an evidence of pride. And the Bible says: "Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling." (Proverbs 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: "Where did we learn Bible truth in the first place? Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God's organization?" No, we cannot!-Compare Acts 15:2, 28, 29; 16:4, 5.
21 When we consider the mighty spirit forces who are fighting against us, we must acknowledge that on our own we could not possibly win. Yet with God's backing, and with the help and support of his organization-our worldwide association of brothers-we cannot lose. (Psalm 118:6-12; 1 Peter 5:9) However, we must never forget that we are in a spiritual war, and that wartime is no time to be relaxing, enjoying only leisure and the pleasures of life. Rather, it is the time for vigorous training, alertness and self-sacrifice. The enemy has been able to get some from among us to relax their guard, and these have become battle casualties. May this never happen to us! It will not if we keep on "the complete suit of armor from God" and "stand firm against the [crafty acts] of the Devil."-Ephesians 6:11, 12.
*** Watchtower 1986 March 15 pp.15-20 Allow No Place for the Devil! ***
Allow No Place for the Devil!
"Let the sun not set with you in a provoked state, neither allow place for the Devil."-EPHESIANS 4:26, 27.
A VICIOUS wild beast is on the prowl. He has an insatiable desire to devour Christians. Peter warns: "Keep your senses, be watchful. Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone. But take your stand against him, solid in the faith . . . But, after you have suffered a little while, the God of all undeserved kindness . . . will make you firm, he will make you strong."-1 Peter 5:8-10.
2 We can be sure that the Devil and his agents, both demon and human, stand ready to exploit any gnawing doubt, any serious flaw of personality, any negligence on our part to keep spiritually strong in the faith. But Jehovah's Word assures us that the Devil will not devour us if we take a firm stand against him. (James 4:7) For instance, no one falls victim to apostasy because it just could not be avoided. No one is predestined to abandon the faith. Motives of the heart are involved. True, John said that some "went out from us, but they were not of our sort." (1 John 2:19) But this happened because they either chose apostasy or came into Jehovah's organization with a bad motive at the start. Judas Iscariot had a good heart when called as one of Jesus' 12 apostles, but the Devil worked on Judas' weakness of greed. Even before the night of Jesus' betrayal, "the Devil [had] already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray him."-John 13:2.
3 A person goes bad because he lets his own selfish reasoning, his own ambitions and desires, his chosen associates and surroundings, mold his thinking and determine the direction of his will. Paul spoke of some who were 'once enlightened, had tasted the heavenly free gift, but had fallen away.' (Hebrews 6:4-6) If we are not continually on guard, the Devil can by his sly propaganda make our hearts receptive to apostate thinking. But how does the Devil, in effect, set a person up as a likely casualty, a victim of apostasy?
4 Common attitudes that Satan looks for are bitterness, resentment, and faultfinding. Such feelings can grow so strong that there is very little room left for love and appreciation. Perhaps some unresolved problem festers, causing a person to feel angry and justified in staying away from vital Christian meetings. By remaining provoked for an extended period of time, he 'allows place for the Devil.' (Ephesians 4:27) The disturbed individual sees only his brother's human weaknesses, rather than forgiving him "seventy-seven times," and he fails to use the trying circumstances as opportunities to be perfecting Christian qualities. (Matthew 18:22) While in this state of mind, if someone comes along and suggests that Jehovah's organization is oppressive or restrictive, or even wrong in certain vital teachings, the embittered Christian's heart may be receptive to such unfounded claims. How necessary it is, then, to avoid letting bitterness and resentment build up! Do not let the sun set on your anger. Instead, let love have its full expression in your life.
5 What other conditions of heart and mind is the Devil looking for? Well, there are pride, a feeling of self-importance, resentment at not getting the prominence one feels one should have. These are all pitfalls used by the Devil. (Romans 12:3) If you are counseled or even reproved for some wrong practice or attitude, this, too, may prove to be an ideal time for the Devil to prompt you to ask yourself if you are in the right organization. So keep humble. Be content to conduct yourself as "a lesser one." Do not let pride or a feeling of self-importance ever cause you to totter from standing solidly in the faith.-Luke 9:48; 1 Peter 5:9.
6 Impatience is another thing looked for by the Devil. We may sometimes feel that changes should be made; we want quick action, immediate answers. 'This problem must be cleared up now, or I quit. I've got to have the answer to this question right now, or I'm not going any further. Armageddon and the new system have been "right around the corner" for years now. I'm tired of waiting.' Be assured that the Devil is ready to sow seeds of doubt and revolt in such fields of impatience. Endurance and faith are needed.-Hebrews 10:36, 39.
7 James said: "Let endurance have its work complete, that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything. So, if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways." (James 1:4-8) Do not let the Devil make you a candidate for apostasy because you have become demandingly impatient, doubtful about the promises of God! Be patient, be thankful. Wait upon Jehovah.-Psalm 42:5.
8 What else does the Devil use in trying to turn us away? Has he not always tried to stir up rebellion, to cause Jehovah's servants to become critical of those taking the lead? 'The elders just do not understand. They are too critical, too demanding,' some may say. A person may go further and claim that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses or other responsible brothers interfere with freedom of conscience and the individual's "right" to interpret the Scriptures. But remember Joseph's humble words: "Do not interpretations belong to God?" (Genesis 40:8) And did not Jesus foretell that in these final days an organization of anointed ones, "the faithful and discreet slave," would be entrusted with providing spiritual food at the proper time? (Matthew 24:45-47) Beware of those who try to put forward their own contrary opinions. Also beware of those who want to throw off all restraints or who promise freedom, claiming that Jehovah's Witnesses are slaves! Peter said of false teachers: "While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption. For whoever is overcome by another is enslaved by this one."-2 Peter 2:1, 19.
9 What is often the motive of those who criticize the Society or those taking the lead? Is it not often that some application of Scripture affects them personally? Rather than conform to sound doctrine and direction, they want the organization to change. Let us illustrate this with a few examples:
10 A brother insists on some extreme clothing or grooming style. The elders feel that he is not a good example and do not extend to him certain privileges, such as appearing on the platform to give instruction. He becomes resentful, claiming that others are trying to take away his Christian freedom. But what is behind such reasoning? Is it not usually pride, an independent attitude, or a rather childish desire to have one's own way? While this seemingly is a small thing, a person reasoning in that way could "allow place for the Devil." But love and humility will cause us to dress and groom ourselves in a modest, acceptable way. We should want to do all things for the advancement of the good news and not to be pleasing ourselves.-Romans 15:1, 2; 1 Corinthians 10:23, 24.
11 Let us take another example. Occasionally you may hear someone question whether the Scriptural prohibition against eating blood really applies to transfusions. But what is behind that reasoning? Is it fear-fear of possibly losing one's present life or the life of a loved one? Is hope in the resurrection fading? Faithful Christians do not compromise on God's law or look for ways to water it down. Abstaining from blood to nourish the body is just as necessary as abstaining from fornication and idolatry, all condemned in the same spirit-directed decree of the apostles and older men at Jerusalem.-Acts 15:19, 20, 28, 29.
12 Some who have a critical attitude claim that Jehovah's organization is too strict about cutting off social contacts with disfellowshipped persons. (2 John 10, 11) But why do such critics feel that way? Do they have a close family tie or mistaken loyalty to a friend that they are putting ahead of loyalty to Jehovah and his standards and requirements? Consider, too, that continuing to accord social fellowship to an expelled person, even one as close as a relative, may lead the erring one to conclude that his course is not so serious, and this to his further harm. However, withholding such association may create in him a craving for what he has lost and a desire to regain it. Jehovah's way is always best, and it is for our own protection.-Proverbs 3:5.
13 Still another person may incorrectly claim that the Scriptures do not support public preaching from house to house. But is this because he already dislikes this important work and is looking for an excuse to abstain? Love of God and neighbor should motivate us to see the urgency of this lifesaving work. Again, endurance is needed. The apostle Paul spoke of his own endurance in 'thoroughly bearing witness to Jews and Greeks' as he taught publicly and from house to house. (Acts 20:18-21) Rather than complain, should we not loyally follow his fine example? Look at the thousands who have been gathered into the "one flock" because of Jehovah's blessing upon the house-to-house work! (John 10:16) And do not forget the fine benefits we receive in training and discipline, in strengthening our faith, by going from door to door so as to reach people with the good news.-Compare Acts 5:42; 1 Timothy 4:16.
14 Finally, we might consider what the Society has published in the past on chronology. Some opposers claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are false prophets. These opponents say that dates have been set, but nothing has happened. Again we ask, What is the motive of these critics? Are they encouraging wakefulness on the part of God's people, or are they, rather, trying to justify themselves for falling back into sleepy inactivity? (1 Thessalonians 5:4-9) More importantly, what will you do if you hear such criticism? If a person is questioning whether we are living in "the last days" of this system, or perhaps is entertaining ideas that God is so merciful that he surely will not cause the death of so many millions of people during the "great tribulation," then this individual already has prepared his heart to listen to such criticisms.-2 Timothy 3:1; Matthew 24:21.
15 Yes, Jehovah's people have had to revise expectations from time to time. Because of our eagerness, we have hoped for the new system earlier than Jehovah's timetable has called for it. But we display our faith in God's Word and its sure promises by declaring its message to others. Moreover, the need to revise our understanding somewhat does not make us false prophets or change the fact that we are living in "the last days," soon to experience the "great tribulation" that will pave the way for the earthly Paradise. How foolish to take the view that expectations needing some adjustment should call into question the whole body of truth! The evidence is clear that Jehovah has used and is continuing to use his one organization, with "the faithful and discreet slave" taking the lead. Hence, we feel like Peter, who said: "Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life."-John 6:68.
16 Only in the spiritual paradise, among Jehovah's Witnesses, can we find the self-sacrificing love Jesus said would identify his true disciples. (John 13:34, 35) By their bad fruits, false prophets are exposed for what they really are. But Jesus indicated that the good trees would be identified by their fine fruits. (Matthew 7:15-20) And what fine fruitage we have in the spiritual paradise! Amazing increases are taking place in practically every country. Over 3,000,000 happy subjects of God's Kingdom around the globe are living proof that Jehovah has a people on the earth.
17 Because they are taught by God, Jehovah's Witnesses really produce the fruits of Christianity in their lives. (Isaiah 54:13) Only Jehovah's people have completely broken free from Babylonish superstitions. Only they have an organization that completely abides by what God's Word has to say on sexual immorality, abortions, drunkenness, stealing, idolatry, racial prejudice, and other worldly pursuits and practices. And they alone are the ones obeying the command to preach the good news of Jehovah's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14) God's own Word unquestionably points to Jehovah's Witnesses as the one organized people that have his blessing!
18 Yes, to all who are faithfully and loyally enduring in the Christian way, we are sure that Jehovah's truth is still beautiful, satisfying-even more so than when they first heard it. Therefore, resolve in your heart that you will never even touch the poison that apostates want you to sip. Heed the wise but firm commands of Jehovah to avoid completely those who would deceive you, mislead you, turn you aside into the ways of death. If we love Jehovah with our whole heart, soul, and mind, while loving our neighbor as we love ourselves, we will leave no room for penetration by apostate thinking. (Matthew 22:37-39) We will not "allow place for the Devil" and will have no desire to look elsewhere. We will not 'be quickly shaken from our reason' by some counterfeit teaching.-2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2.
19 Let us always appreciate our privilege of being in Jehovah's spiritual paradise, where we are enjoying so many rich blessings. We know who are holding faithfully to the sayings of everlasting life. So maintain close association with them, knowing that they are our genuine, loyal brothers and sisters in the faith. May we continue to have the same joy and satisfaction that we had when we first learned the truth, with the assurance of the grand prize of everlasting life in Jehovah's new system of things. As Paul so aptly said: "Let no man deprive you of the prize"!-Colossians 2:18.
*** Watchtower 1986 April 1 pp.30-31 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
• Why have Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?
[…]
Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses. What do such beliefs include? That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah's sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a "faithful and discreet slave" upon earth today 'entrusted with all of Jesus' earthly interests,' which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ's foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15-12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ's Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present "great crowd" of Jesus' "other sheep."-John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4.
*** Year Book 1988 p.100 Ireland ***
However, the antipathy toward Jehovah's people and the resistance to their work was still deep-seated. Later that same year in a local Limerick newspaper, the following appeal was made to Catholic readers:
"We appeal most earnestly to any person who may be accosted by representatives of the Society [Jehovah's Witnesses] to have nothing to do with their propaganda and to refuse firmly to enter into any discussions with them. Any copies of their publications which readers may have acquired should be destroyed immediately. So strongly does the Church wish us to shun their evil doctrines that any Catholic who reads publications of the Society leaves himself open to excommunication. Ireland's heritage of Faith, retained through centuries of persecution, is not to be bartered for a mess of Brooklyn pottage."
*** Watchtower August 1, 2001 p. 14, par. 8 ***
First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided "at the proper time" — through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions — we can be sure that we maintain "oneness" with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge. — Matthew 24:45.
*** Watchtower 2001 August 1 How to Make Your Advancement Manifest ***
8 First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave."
Witness, Inc., until recently sold a bound transcript of the Douglas Walsh trial from 1954. They don't seem to be selling it anymore; contact them as to why.
I've never heard of anyone offering a microfilm of the transcript. I'm pretty sure that getting one directly from the Scottish court is quite expensive.
AlanF
How do I contact Witness Inc.? Is it a website?
kj
