Jerusalem will be trampled by the nations until the Gentile Times are Fulfilled. — Luke 21:24

by Fisherman 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    The Time Of The Gentiles

    Dan Delagrave


    "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Luke 21:24)

    There has been much misunderstanding in the modern Church concerning "the times of the Gentiles." The correct interpretation must be consistent with both the immediate context and the greater weight of scripture.


    "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:32)


    "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh . . . and Jerusalem shall be trodden down (pateho) of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Luke 21:20, 24)

    The times of the Gentiles referred to the treading down, or desolation, of first century Jerusalem, which Jesus called "the days of vengeance". In other words, it was God's mission for the Gentiles to bring judgment upon Jerusalem. This is consistent with past judgments upon Israel, when God brought Gentiles armies into their land to desolate it.

    The whole controversy centers on the duration of the treading down of Jerusalem. The Greek for "trodden" is pat-eh'-o (#3961 in Strong's Concordance), and it means "to trample down underfoot". The parallel to Lk.21:24 is seen in Revelation 11:2, which says:

    "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot (pateho) forty and two months." Rev 11:2

    Could it be any plainer? The times of the Gentiles, or treading down of Jerusalem, entailed no more than a forty two month period of time, the exact duration of the Jewish-Roman War. This is in perfect harmony with Daniel 12:7, where the defining characteristic of "the time of the end" is said to be "the scattering of the power of the holy people", which we are told would be accomplished during "a time, times, and a half", or forty two months.

    Furthermore, when we consider the mountain of evidence for a pre-70 dating of Revelation, in addition to the statements of imminence in the book itself (1:1, 3; 22:6, 7, 10, 12), then the forced conclusion is that the forty two months was fulfilled in the 66-70 A.D. Jewish-Roman War.

    In the ancient Near East, the ultimate image of triumph over an enemy was the positioning of the enemy "under the feet" of the conqueror. Jerusalem's first century desolation represented the time when Christ put his enemies (see I Thessalonians 2:15-16)“ under his feet. This was accomplished during a forty two month period which Jesus called "the times of the Gentiles".

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Re the literal nature of the 42 months, Barnes writes:

    Shall they tread under foot forty and two months - Literally, this would be three years and a half...Prof. Stuart, who adopts the opinion that it refers to the conquest of Jerusalem by the Romans, says, indeed, “It is certain that the invasion of the Romans lasted just about the length of the period named, until Jerusalem was taken.

    Clark writes:

    Rev 11:2 - But the court - is given unto the Gentiles - The measuring of the temple probably refers to its approaching destruction, and the termination of the whole Levitical service; and this we find was to be done by the Gentiles, (Romans), who were to tread it down forty-two months; i.e., just three years and a half, or twelve hundred and sixty days.

    Daniel 12:1-3

    And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
    Dan.12:1 Our Lord, in Mat_24:21, has this passage in mind, and uses terms borrowed from it to describe the sufferings to be endured by the Jews at the hands of the Romans. when Jerusalem shall be besieged and taken. It is to be observed that while in Daniel the comparison is only with the past, in Matthew there is added a reference to the future, "No, nor ever shall be." Nothing, then, shall equal the appalling horrors of the siege and sack of Jerusalem. And at that time thy people shall be delivered. The mere fact of deliverance is mentioned, but the nature of the deliverance is not indicated there; cessation of persecution would not be deliverance, for only Israel was persecuted. The application of the phrases of our Lord have a totally different reference—the Jews perished, the Christians were delivered

    Daniel 12:1-4

    Michael signifies, “Who is like God,” and his name, with the title of “the great Prince,” points to the Divine Saviour. Christ stood for the children of our people in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the curse for them, to bear it from them. When God works deliverance from persecution for them, it is as life from the dead. Through the preaching of this gospel in the end the multitude that sleep in the dust shall awake; many shall arise to life, and many to shame. There is glory reserved for all the saints in the future state, for all that are wise, wise for their souls and eternity. Those who turn many to righteousness, who turn sinners from the errors of their ways, and help to save their souls from death, Jam_5:20, will share in the glory of those they have helped to heaven, which will add to their own glory.



  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Evidence for the early writing (Pre-70 AD)

    The preface comment to the Book of Revelation in the Aramaic Peshitta version has a comment which would place the writing of the Book of Revelation to the early date, a time prior to 70 AD. The title page of the Book of Revelation contains the following statement: "The revelation which God gave the evangelist John on the island of Patmos where he had been banned by Nero Caesar." The emperor Nero however died in 68 AD, and according to Roman rules those banned by a Caesar would be released after the Caesar's death ... thus, John would have been released from Patmos in 68 AD (or shortly thereafter) and the time when he received this revelation and wrote it down would have been prior to 70 AD. John himself mentions in the book that he was at Patmos, when he received this revelation.

    Internal evidence

    There are a number of points arising from the internal evidence, that is, from information given in the book itself, which all indicate the early date as not only probable but the only possible date for what is stated in the Book.

    Warnings to seven churches in Asia

    The Book of Revelation specifically mentions that this revelation was of special relevance to the seven churches in Asia and that John wrote it and had it sent to those churches by messengers (cp Rev 1:4). It is important to note that during Paul's ministry in the 50ies AD, there had been nine churches established in Asia. At about 60/61 AD there was a large earthquake in which, as we can read in secular sources, the cities of Colossae, Hierapolis and Laodicea were totally destroyed. Laodicea was the only city of these three which was rebuilt soon afterwards, which then left seven cities with churches in Asia. The period of time where there were only seven churches in Asia was only during the few years from the early 60ies AD to the time prior to the Jewish war.

    In order for the book to even be of benefit to the Christians in Asia, it must have been written prior to 66/67 AD, before Vespasian was coming through this area with his armies as they were getting in position for the war against the Jews. Once the war started, the Romans plundered and persecuted the Christians as well as the Jews wherever they came through.

    An interesting detail from the message to the church at Philadelphia (cp Rev 3:7ff) also sheds some light on the possible time of writing. The believers at Philadelphia are warned by Christ in this revelation that an "hour of temptation" was imminent and "about to come upon all the world [the Roman empire]" and that they should hold fast and remain faithful as he [Christ] was coming soon. This is important and significant in that it is addressed to believers of a church in the 1st century AD and in that the first persecution of Christians all over the Roman empire took place under Nero Caesar in 64 AD. If this warning to the believers in Asia about an imminent temptation and the encouragement to hold fast related to this persecution, then the book seems to have been written even prior to 64 AD.

    John's later activities

    Another internal evidence in the book itself is connected to a reference about certain activities which John was still to experience in his life afterwards. In Rev 10:11, John is told that he "must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings". Now, if John would have received this revelation in 96AD and written it at that time, then these words which he was told did not come to pass, seeing that he was a very old man at that time and hardly able to walk and travel. But, if John did receive this revelation and write it down during the time of Nero approx 65-66 AD, then he could fulfill what he was told. He would have been able to prophesy and to teach during the reigns of Caeasars Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Vespasian, Titus and also Domitian (spanning the time from 68-96 AD).

    Destruction of city and temple at the end of the age

    There are a number of references in the book of Revelation with symbols that have reference to the temple, and in addition Rev 11,1-2 makes reference to the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem. This event was also foretold by Jesus, when he prophesied about the judgment on Jerusalem which was to come by the Son of man at the end of the age.

    There is a parallel record in Zec 14:2 about this "day of the Lord" with its destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and Zec 13:7ff places this shortly after the shepherd would have dispersed his sheep (Jesus did quote from this section in Mt 26,31). Rev 11,2 is also a parallel to Mal 4, where a day of the Lord is spoken about when the Lord would separate and burn the chaff (the evil ones). This also parallels what Jesus mentions in parables about the burning of the chaff, the burning of apostate Israel, "at the end of the world [age]" (cp Mt 13:40,49).

    Now, when is or was "the end of the age"? Other records in the NT scriptures provide some insight as they mention certain things which happen in connection with the end of the age. The writer of Hebrews speaks of Jesus as "now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." (Heb 9:26), and we can see from this passage that "the end of the world [age]"is the time when the Messiah Jesus through his sacrifice put away sin; in other words, the "end of the age" was the time during which Jesus lived and fulfilled his ministry almost 2000 years ago.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    Revelation says that when Christ takes the throne in heaven, he will cast down the Devil for "a short period of time."


    If Christ was enthroned in the first century and if the Devil was cast down in the first century, then that would mean that the "short time" was actually about 2000 years, which would be about one-third of the time humans have been in existence. The math doesn't add up to support Jesus having been enthroned in the first century.


    The scriptures show that the "short period of time" the Devil will be cast down is only 3 1/2 years. The great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years. It doesn't begin until after Jesus is enthroned in heaven and casts the Devil down. That hasn't happened yet, but when it does, no one will have to ask "is this the appointed times of the nations?" because it will be really horrible and everyone will know. The religious institutions will be completely devastated by the nations. But it will only be for 3 1/2 years that the UN gets to rule with their iron fist, so take courage. God will feed us in that "wilderness" time even though there will not be any "city-like" religious institutions. God and Christ will be our refuge and source of spiritual "water" and "sustenance" (strength).



    "Keep on the watch!"

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    Jesus said that no man would know when the Kingdom would begin.


    Daniel chapter 9 gives an outline of the timing of when the Messiah would show up on the earth and do his ministry and die.


    If the Kingdom were to begin at the end of Christ's ministry, then Jesus wouldn't have said that the timing of the Kingdom rule beginning couldn't be calculated.


    If Jesus was to receive the Kingdom as soon as he went to heaven, he wouldn't have told the apostles they had to wait, that it didn't belong to them to know.


    That there was a second fulfillment of "tribulation" is apparent because Jesus never appeared in the heavens on the clouds and never sent his angels to gather Christians from all over the earth. Those things didn't happen in the first century because Jesus was telling what would happen in our day when he foretold those things.


    There is a great tribulation coming on the earth. Christians who are asleep to it will be shocked. The religious institutions are about to be destroyed. Take refuge in God and Christ and endure in the faith and love and undeserved kindness of the Lord. Do not be afraid when the tribulation begins. It is for the appointed times. It has a beginning, and it will have an end. At the end of the 3 1/2 years, the UN and all human governments will be replaced with God's Kingdom. Keep the faith and wait for it with endurance. God has not abandoned us.


    When you see the all the nations completely attacking religious institutions, you will know that Jesus took the throne in heaven. That will be the time to tell the world that the Kingdom has begun.


    "As you go, preach, saying "Repent! The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near."

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Your world views involve God using hidden messages, cryptic riddles and secret code words. A sober minded secular view sees the texts as sectarian responses to social injustice with creative use and reuse of metaphor. I enjoy a puzzle as much as most, but I'm also going to look at the 'big picture' on the box.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt
    "hidden messages, cryptic riddles and secret code words"


    @peacefulpete, If you can't understand what is very clearly written in God's Word, it's not because of my world view...


    Matthew 11:25-27


    "At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son except the Father; neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him."



    Matthew 13:10-13


    "So the disciples came and said to him: “Why do you speak to them by the use of illustrations?” In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted. For whoever has, more will be given him, and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.'"

    "look at the 'big picture' on the box"

    It's a matter of the heart, not the eyes.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete
    It's a matter of the heart, not the eyes.

    That could be taken as meaning ignore your eyes in favor of a warm feeling

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    @peacefulpete, Is that what you think Jesus meant by "heart"? "A warm feeling"?


    Matthew 13:15


    "For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them."


    (If you don't know what Jesus meant by "heart" then why do you think you know what he meant in all the prophecies? If you really think he meant "a warm feeling" then I can see why you are so off on those other things too...)

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    delete

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