Andy, nice of you to say;
p.s. this is a discussion and absolutely nothing personal.
I always find it convenient to make a statement like this when I have just accused someone of something despicable and something which I can't prove, as you do here;
It "seems" in your comments that you're more defending the nudist lifestyle than that you're concerned about the welfare of children.
Nice to know the level of comment I can make without it being regarded as personal! Is that "seems" as in "if I stick "seems" in with quotation marks it means I can say whatever the hell I like without having to back it up or apologise?"
Don't worry, I've lived in Holland for three years. I now know that the reason the British Empire grew to the size it did and the Dutch Empire didn't had nothing to do with millitary strength or cunning or bravery, or even the fact there were more British people. It was all down to an inability to be subtle on the part of the Dutch!
You asked;
I have tried to address this issue earlier (which got 0) I ask myself if nudism does not instigate pedophily.
I answered quite comprehensively why I think naturism does not instigate paedophilia.
You are acting as though you have proved it does and that any defence of it is putting defending a lifesytle over the safety of children.
Would you FIRST show that a child at a naturist resort is at greater risk of abduction than one at any comparable clothed resort?
If you can prove there is a greater risk, then my saying that there is no greater risk could be described as me "more defending the nudist lifstyle than that you're concerned about the welfare of children".
If there is no greater risk, then it 'seems' you don't know what you're talking about, and are making unfounded accusations.
You accuse zen nudist of using Borg psychology and me of putting children's safety after a leisure activity; is there any specific reason you feel you can make such unpleasent comments about people before you have even shown that there is any validity in the linkage your making?
If as an adult you want to live that way it's your own choice, but what about the children? Where's their choice?
In this regard, their choice is exactly where children's choice is when it comes to other things that parents decide for their children, like the religion they are raised in, the programs they watch on TV, the school they go to, whether they have music lessons, etc.. But, without evidence you are assuming naturism gives rise to a greater risk from paedophiles. You also seem to be putting nudism or naturism into a special catagory, just because it involves people taking their clothes off, purely on your say-so. This again speaks more of your attitude than naturism; if you're unconvinced I can dig up some research that shows children exposed to naturism actually have better body image and self esteem, and fewer sexual problems.
I think any situation which could expose children to danger should be investigated, also nudist resorts.
As I commented earlier, children are unfortunately at risk in many places in society. You are still behaving like there is a proven greater risk of abuduction at naturist resorts - I say abduction because of your original comment "If these unbalanced persons visit nudist beaches ..." put it in that context.
As for your comment: "you actually seem to view nakedness as a sexual act" is in some way true, though not always. One has to be able to discern the difference. Not everything is black and white.
Andy, nakedness by itself is NOT sexual. Note what I say above 'nakedness as a sexual act'; I put it this way because there will be people who view a girl wearing a short skirt as a sexual act when the woman wearing it doesn't.
Nakedness as practised at a family naturist resort is not practised by those there as a sexual act (obviously Hedonism and Cap d'Agde are not family naturist resorts).
If you had been to family naturist resorts recently maybe your memory would be refreshed; at a family resort even couples avoid being too affectionate in public, you just don't see people kissing and cuddling except fleetingly. If anything, it's slightly prudish. God; at a normal resort no one is that bothered by guys staring at girls in bikinis. At a naturist resort people don't generally stare at people as people resepct each other privacy. Anyone not conforming to these standards sticks out.
I still don't think we should stick our heads in the sand saying that there is no problem. As long as children are being abused,
and it doesn't matter where, we have a problem.
I agree there is a problem, but if there is a problem we need to fight the problem and not windmills, okay Don Quixote? Pretending without evidence there is added danger from naturism, when there is none (unless you can produce figures showing the contrary), just diverts people away from fighting the problem where the problem is.
Open your window. Look out your door. You don't have to go to a naturist resort to find it, even though such demonisation may make you feel better.
First off, children need to be equiped to deal with sexual predators; a decent sex education system with appropriate training to allow children to realise when they are at risk and who they can turn to is a start. We might feel uncomfortable with teaching seven year olds that their body is theirs and that anyone trying to touch them there is dangerous and that it's not their fault, but they need to get to a safe person as soon as possible, but if giving such education reduces risk to children, THAT is what it is all about.
Second, we, as in modern western society, need to figure out what we want; we bewail, rightly, paedophilia, and then idolise youthful sexual attractiveness; we send mixed messages to our children. If we're gonna complain about sick adults sexualising our children and not see the contradiction in the clothing that is available for them, we are just kidding ourselves.
Third, we need to make it possible for those who have controlled paedophile desires to seek help without effectively ending any chance of a normal life; it's very easy to look at the tip of the iceburg and be sunk by what you don't see under the surface. It might appall us, but if giving those who've controlled their perversion a chance at therapy (and private therapy) reduces risk to children, THAT is what it is all about.
Guest 77: I would imagine rape in prison is often about power; those raping are typically socially dominant within the prison. Sexual frustration obviously makes some recanalise their sexuality from hetereo-based to orifice-based. It's hard to link it with the free world though, as there are so many factors different.
