How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Cold Steel

  David_Jay » I have been involved in a handful of debates here, but I don't wish to continue this practice. Jews aren't interested in changing others into Jews. I appreciate the varied views of others, and I can best learn from others (and I wish to) outside of a forum like this. I just don't subscribe to the teaching that any one group has been assigned all of "the truth."

  Although you're correct that Jews have no interest in changing other people into Jews or proselytizing in any way, some Christians do, such as many forms of evangelicals, the latter-day saints. It's seen all the way through the New Testament. Other Christians have no interest in proselytizing, such as the Eastern Orthodox. But it's how each views their own beliefs as reflected in their biblical or other scriptures.

  You've expressed your own aversion to changing the religious views of others, but there's a line to be drawn between proselytizing and discussing. I not only can accept your beliefs as a Jew, I can respect your desire not to be proselytized. At the same time not all Jews have the same eschatological beliefs. They also differ widely in historical outlooks and scriptural exegeses. (Some believe prophecy as being of God; others even doubt that God exists.)

  Finally, discussion should not be confused with debating. This board, after all, like most boards, are for discussion. You've added a great deal to this forum, but please don't ever think I disrespect your beliefs or outlooks. Again, quite the contrary.
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  David_Jay

  Cold Steel,

  I appreciate your words.

  And, while it is very true that Jews can vary widely on personal convictions, all Jews, whether humanist or theist, accept prophecy as coming from God.

  Unlike the Gentile religions that believe in a supernatural or miraculous communication as forming a direct oracle from the Divine, Jews understand direct revelation from God differently.

  A direct prophecy from God can come in the form of the way something in nature works, from the mindless mountains and stars that obey the laws of the universe.

  A direct communication from God can come in the form of a strong sense of justice in the mind and heart of an atheist who then stands up and proclaims a need for change and then active fights for that change.

  The prophets of Israel were similar. They had a strong natural sense of what it meant to be just and holy. Their call for change may have been direct revelations from God, as in the experience a Mormon prophet may claim to have. But Jews see the natural incentive no less communicative and direct a line from God, and thus there is no need to see such oracles as precise dictations of a literal voice of God from heaven. The ardor of a righteous soul can in some cases be inspiration enough.

  It has been very hurtful as well to read from you in another thread that Jews will have to accept that we will be subjected to proselytizing by Mormons sometime in the future. The answer to that is no. I will never accept such a thing.

  So while I appreciate your attempt at trying to resolve things between us, I can only view your convictions on the necessary proselytizing of the Jews as disrespect. Proselytizing is considered an evil to Jews, and if you don't accept that, then you don't really respect us. It is what the Catholics did to us in the Inquisition. It is never moral. It is never right.
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  I_love_Jeff

  Thank you Cold Steel for all your valuable information
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  Crazyguy

  I think the early Israelites were of course Canaanites so they worshipped the same pantheon of gods. The Elohim were those gods. There even a mention of three men like guys talking to Abraham in Genesis and the it says he seen god. Yhvh may have been a symbol for the group not just one. There is more then one scholar that believes this or that the YHWH meant the power of the gods.
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  David_Jay

  I_love_Jeff was not looking for answers, thought it might seem like it.

  Now I might be mistaken, but it seems as if the OP had their mind made up on the subjects they wrote about. And that is all and good.

  Unfortunately I got a few too many unwelcomed PMs as a result from people not necessarily involved in the discussion originally that used this opportunity to harass me a bit.

  Of course, I am not saying who they were, and I am sure it was not I_love_Jeff's idea for this to happen either. I_love_Jeff was merely sharing information and wishing to explain the view that they have.

  I_love_Jeff, you are likely unaware of what was going on as are others who are reading this thread. So I just ask that if people want to play games and send people unwelcome messages privately, that you have a little more courage to bring out your points in the open to the thread like the rest of us did instead of using this as an opportunity to insult me privately.

  I'm a big boy. I am not hurt. But I don't think the OP or anyone on this site likes to be set up.

  Thanks for introducing the the original subject matter anyway, I_love_Jeff, and thanks to others who were being civil to me instead of playing games in private messages.
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  I_love_Jeff

  OP???

  David_Jay not sure what is going on but I do know this: I enjoy digging deep into the heart of the Bible and investigating that which is mysterious. Thank you for your scholarly information.