The Bible can help JWs to stop judging homosexuals. Try this method.

by DATA-DOG 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Simon

  I don't think most JWs can get passed some of these points.

  No, quite the opposite - they see it as evidence of their Adamic sin = imperfection belief. The fact that you cannot reproduce shows' that you are "wrong" and they have the answer - someone ate the wrong piece of fruit after talking to a reptile.

  Their belief is that if you are gay, that isn't what you are meant to be like.

  In a weird way, it may be an appealing message if someone is struggling with their orientation. Here's a group promising you'll be fixed with no surgery required, you just have to believe.
• 

  Vidiot

  Simon - "Here's a group promising you'll be fixed with no surgery required, you just have to believe."

  Yup.

  Unfortunately, the last time a guy wore a cape and jumped off a building "believing" he could fly like Superman, it did not go well.
• 

  steve2

  DATA-DOG, your heart and step-wise reasoning are both in the right place.

  Yet your "reasoning" is based on several successive assumptions. It is like you place one hoop after the other which your unwitting listener is asked to jump through. Good luck with that!

  Even the Watchtower has alluded to the likely "born-with-it" explanation but has maintained a stand against the practise of homosexuality.

  I suspect that, whilst you might "win" an argument with a JW on this particular issue, you will not change their heart-felt view that it is a sin from which the individual must repent.
• 

  Greener

  Yeah, maybe so. They can believe different things of course. Some view it as a sin against nature or the Creator.

  I'm imparting this from my own personal experience/perspective, growing up in all of this cultish stuff. Others will have their own experiences of course.

  Past not passed..geez.
• 

  DATA-DOG

  Oh, I never said a thing about convincing a JW that being gay wasn't a sin. That's not possible. I said that I've had success getting dubs to admit that they should not judge homosexuals or gossip about them.

  This method puts them on the spot. They know that only God or Jesus ( whoever the hell they think is ruling ) can judge someone as worthy of life or eternal destruction. That's their belief.

  What this has done for some of my family is to access their non-JW self. Like it or not, mainstream Xianity leave wiggle room for homosexuals. This is not the case with TOMO and crew. So when my family members say, " You're right. We are all damaged goods. It's not our place to pass judgment on people", that's a victory in my book.

  Ya gotta start somewhere.

  DD
• 

  Pubsinger

  I will have a chance to try this and several other points with a JW I know who is open to genuine discussion. I'm fairly certain he will take Romans 8 and then say that it must be 'qualified' by other scriptures such as Paul's 'condemnation' of homosexuality in Corinthians. How would you reason Data Dog when that scripture is thrown in the mix? Genuinely interested.

  Someone on page 1 of the thread said that 'as a heterosexual I am attracted to many different women but following my natural instincts would still be viewed as wrong'. That is true, but in the 'gay debate' especially within the church, most are talking about a monogomous relationship, hence the importance of legally accepted gay marriage. Few would support a promiscuous lifestyle, gay or otherwise.
• 

  DATA-DOG

  I think that's pretty easy. Paul was condemning homosexuals, but JWs believe that not everyone may have the chance to learn "the truth" before the big A. They belive that Big J will read hearts.

  The "official" belief is that only the truly wicked will be destroyed. This is the still "the truth" despite TOMO's recent rant about Jeehoober killing inactive JWs and other such nonsense. That raises the question, "Who is wicked and who is ignorant?"

  What about the billions with a "B" in China or India who haven't seen a Bible? What about remote tribes who may still practice cannibalism and polygamy? The JW will say, " Jeehoobar will do the judging by reading their hearts!"

  That's when you say, " What about little Timmy, who was born with homosexual tendencies, perhaps due to a hormonal imbalance? Then he was raised in a gay-friendly community. He may even have been introduced to homosexual behavior at a young age. Through no fault of his own, ( being subjected to futility by God ) he's a victim of the nature/nurture combo. Will Jesus destroy little Timmy if the Big A comes tomorrow?"

  If a God of justice subjects humans to futility, and then destroys them because of the baggage they collect from their sinful condition ( in a world that God ALLOWS the Devil to rule ), how is that just!??

  Those are the kinds of questions that I've been asking. My mother has already commented, " I wish your brother ( who is an Elder ) could learn to be compassionate, like you."

  DD
• 

  steve2

  So, you've got JWs to stop judging homosexuals or gossip about them, DATA-DOG. Well done!

  Now would you please apply your stunningly persuasive reasoning powers to the 99.99999% of other matters that JWs judge others over and gossip about.

  Oh, and when you've done that, please report back to us with outcomes, including actual numbers you've persuaded to drop judgements and gossip. Thanks.
• 

  DATA-DOG

  Uh, sure thing. You sound a little pissed. Here are some figures:

  5 close family members and 2 friends believe that it's wrong for them to judge homosexuals. This is based on the reasoning that I presented. A drop in the bucket.

  They can't deny that God allows evil to exist. They don't even try. Will my conversation make any real difference in the long run? I have no idea. I just know that in my own case, one person had nerve to challenge my JW indoctrination.

  DD
• 

  steve2

  Thanks for your response DD.

  I can clarify that I am not "pissed" (far too strong a word for my feelings over this) but could be more accurately described as feeling "amused" by some of your wording in the OP and subsequent explanations.

  That said, I accept that, based on your above reply, you have indeed had some success.