Jesus—a real, historical person

by Ireneus 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • cofty
    The historical Jesus was like a sage/prophet who taught the principles of humanism

    He was an egomaniacal apocalyptic prophet who tore families apart. If he was live today there would be documentaries about him exposing his dangerous lunacy.

  • Phizzy

    The argument that the Romans must have based the new chosen religion upon an historical figure is specious as their track record, Mithras, Jupiter, Minerva, Mars etc were all mythical figures, as were Romulus and Remus, though the latter, like Jesus of Nazareth may possibly have existed.

    But it is totally wrong to speak of an Historical Jesus, History is silent about him, all we have is Myth and Legend.

    I think it is dishonest to pick out the bits about him you like from those Myths, and disregard the rest, what basis can you have for doing that ?

    As Cofty says above, much of the Mythos depicts a not very nice person !

  • Pistoff

    The OP lists two assertions, with no proof.

    Ireneus, what is the difference between a real man and a powerful myth?

    Either can take over a powerful empire.

    Proof, or evidence, please.

  • Ireneus


    Anti-family verses Jesus supposedly spoke are the creation of apostate Christianity because they wanted followers to put organizational interests above their families. Jesus who stood for unconditional love (Mathew 5:44-48) and peace-making (Mathew 5:8) could not have advocated any of those anti-family verses (that was obviously put into his mouth by those with vested interests).

    Jesus said we can have unambiguous lessons from looking at The Book of Nature (Mathew 6:26) which means he is asking his listeners to be dynamic and make own lessons from the Book of Nature. For example, I have made the following lessons:

    1) I see earth is fine-tuned not only for my sustenance but also for my enjoyment. This inspires me to fine-tune all my actions (thinking, speaking, and acting) for the welfare of all which includes my family members too—with whom I have to be in peace.

    2) I see earth is only a dust-sized in comparison with the vast universe, which means I have no sound basis to cultivate ego which makes life (own and of others) a hell.

    3) History shows that everyone enters empty-handed and exits empty-handed which means in principle we do not posses anything, but only use possessions for a limited period and pass on to others which teaches me to have a trustee attitude, like Abraham who is called “a friend of God” because he had this trustee attitude or guest attitude (Heb 11:13)

  • doubtfull1799

    Well you've just highlighted the problem right there. Wiht no original sources to check, and no outside corroboration from other historians other than Christian sources, we have no way of knowing what Jesus actually said, versus what others "put into his mouth" years later! How then do you separate the man from the myth, even if there was a real man to begin with?

  • Ireneus

    Doubtful 1799,

    It is like identifying notes in the false place in music. This is easy for those who have a taste for music.

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